Paint Thickness

**Auto Care USA** · 02-05-2003, 03:51 PM

Can anyone tell me the exact thickness of the clearcoat on new cars today? Also what is the total thickness of the entire paint job? I believe that it has changed since 1986.Thanks

**C. Charles Hahn** · 02-05-2003, 04:13 PM

http://members.aol.com/kstegath/book_rev/aut_pnt2.htm

from what I gather, the clearcoat itself is 1.5 to 2 mils, and the whole paint would be around 13.2 mils. :xyxthumbs

**jimmybuffit** · 02-05-2003, 08:42 PM

Per Ron Ketchum and Automotive International just last week, the total film build varies from a low of 6.0 mil to 12 or thirteen mil. It varies by mfg, plant and day of the week. The clear is almost always 1.5 mil thick, but the critical density (shine, hardness and UV blockers) is in the top .5 mil. To preserve that layer of protection, Autoint advises to never remove more than .3 mil. Total, for the life time of the finish.

Think about that the next time you get the rotary out. Also, in another thread, there was talk of wetsanding to remove orange peel... makes me shudder.

Now I gotta go buy a paint thickness guage.

Jim

**masterfinish** · 02-06-2003, 10:54 AM

Hang on there guys. Time to revisit with Ron. Unless a new paint job was rejected and run through the paint line twice then there would not be over 3.5 to 4 mils from top clear down to metal. The clear is normally only 1 to 1.5 mils thick. I doubt if any new vehicle has more then 5 mils of paint on it. That only happens when there was a problem with the paint production line and new cars went through a second time. You can guess that this screws up production schedules and is not tolerated very often. Time and production cost big bucks and problems get corrected quickly.

This is why a electronic film thickness guage is not just a tool to impress the customers with any longer. It now becomes a necessity to avoid damage and liability. Buff off more than .3 mils and you can have long term damage show up within a few months. Customers will get wise when they ask the dealership what`s wrong with the paint and he asks who polished it.

This is no longer a hobby guys this is a real skill that should be performed by professionals. This entire industry will suffer in the not too distant future if the insiders do not take it upon themselves to train often and update their skills on a regular basis.

**safetyman2010** · 02-06-2003, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by Masterfinish

Hang on there guys. Time to revisit with Ron. Unless a new paint job was rejected and run through the paint line twice then there would not be over 3.5 to 4 mils from top clear down to metal. The clear is normally only 1 to 1.5 mils thick. I doubt if any new vehicle has more then 5 mils of paint on it. That only happens when there was a problem with the paint production line and new cars went through a second time. You can guess that this screws up production schedules and is not tolerated very often. Time and production cost big bucks and problems get corrected quickly.

This is why a electronic film thickness guage is not just a tool to impress the customers with any longer. It now becomes a necessity to avoid damage and liability. Buff off more than .3 mils and you can have long term damage show up within a few months. Customers will get wise when they ask the dealership what`s wrong with the paint and he asks who polished it.

This is no longer a hobby guys this is a real skill that should be performed by professionals. This entire industry will suffer in the not too distant future if the insiders do not take it upon themselves to train often and update their skills on a regular basis.

As per the technical data I have received from the paint manufacturers in the last 12 months, the average OEM paint thickness is 4.5 mils. Aside from that your information is exactly right.

**captkirk2** · 02-06-2003, 12:12 PM

Even with a film thickness guage no one really knows how much clear there is. Doesnt the guage measure paint thickness including primer and base coats? Add in the possibility of refinished areas the variables are pretty wide. It can be a helpfultool to see if one area might have been buffed more than another but no one really knows how much clear exists.

**BradE** · 02-06-2003, 12:33 PM

Your typical paint job has a four parts, with varying thickness.

1. E-Coat .9 - 1.1 mils

2. Primer, one or the other is used NOT both. (liquid 1 or more mils) (powder 2-3 mils)

3. Basecoat .4 - 1.2 mils

4. ClearCoat 1.8 -2.0 mils for liquid, 2.2- 2.4 mils for powder. Again, both are NOT used.

Normal paint thickness is under 5 mils, but it can be higher.

**masterfinish** · 02-06-2003, 01:30 PM

The observation regarding being unable to tell how much is clear coat is correct. This is why if at all possible you must ask the customer if they are aware of the vehicle being polished before they brought it to you. If it is a used vehicle they will not know and either will you using film thickness gauges or not. This makes ongoing care of the paint very risky. If the customer likes to come in once every 6 months or one time each year. How nay times can it truly be polished before we tell them that`s it, no more buffing. It may even be just the hood or some part that had light scratching and because polishing was necessary that particular area has now had the .3 mils of clear coat removed. Do we honestly tell the customer that we can polish the rest of the car but not the hood anymore. Will our customers be afraid to have their vehicles polished in the future. It is obvious that at some point the word will get out. In the usual manner the media will make the problem and detailers out to be fools. Without the ICA and paint manufactures setting the consumers straight we could loose a lot of retail. This is worth thinking about but I would not lose sleep over it as there has never been much attention paid to our profession by the media. Still we have to decide how we educate our customers regarding the proper care and limits of their clear coated vehicles.

**jerry@robs** · 02-11-2003, 07:43 AM

anybody knows where to get electronic PTG`s at a low price?

**masterfinish** · 02-11-2003, 11:06 AM

None of the ETG`s are cheap. The only place close to reasonable was through Ron at Auto Int. He buys enough to get a discount and passes it on to you. If you try to buy direct there are almost double the price.

**imported_Intel486** · 02-11-2003, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by theveed

anybody knows where to get electronic PTG`s at a low price?

TOL has that magnetic one for like $40.

The electric ones are expensive. The cheapest I`ve seen I believe was low $500 all the way up to $1000+ units.

**masterfinish** · 02-11-2003, 07:03 PM

The magnetic ones are so inaccurate it does make a difference. Hard to get a reading when you have to stare at the tiny marks while pulling away from the surface before the magnetic releases and the marks pop back in the gauge. Automotive International at http//:www.autoint.com has them for less than $500.00. This tool will only make a difference if you are doing enough retail business to justify the write off. If you are small or a hobbyist the cost is not worth it.

There is another unit that is not electronic that I purchased years ago. It is made by Elcometer a company that specializes in non detrimental measuring equipment. I paid about $225.00 for one. It comes with a couple of test plates to test the accuracy and fine tune when needed. Here is a link to check it out http://www.elcometer.com/com/index.htm

This gives you some options as they have mechanical and electronic film thickness guages. Been around since 1947.

**crooper** · 02-12-2003, 07:49 PM

after my car got wrecked last month i pulled off a piece of the paint and it measured around .0052 inches with the micrometer. is a "mil" 0.001 inches? the car is clearcoated and i hadn`t done much polishing on that panel.

**MnRiverman** · 02-21-2003, 03:45 PM

Well 1 inch is 25.4mm.

So setting up the equation, 25.4/1 x X/.0052, x=.13208. Now unless my math is wrong, that means you have .13208mm. I think you may have measured incorrectly.

With all this talk about 1-2mm of clear coat, that seems like pretty damn little. How do we know how much we are talking off when we SMR and such? Kinda scary.....

- Anthony

**TortoiseAWD** · 02-21-2003, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by adg44

Well 1 inch is 25.4mm.

So setting up the equation, 25.4/1 x X/.0052, x=.13208. Now unless my math is wrong, that means you have .13208mm. I think you may have measured incorrectly.

I believe he measured correctly, but I think you may be confused about the terminology being used. A `mil` is 1/1000 of an inch, not an abbreviation for millimeters . . . threw me for a loop first time I saw it, too.

Tort