Arizona's SB 1070

[Bunky]

The funny thing is that immigration has been an issue ever since this country was founded. In the late 1790's, there was the Alien and Sedition Act. Back then, you just had to be here for a while to be a citizen.

This country was founded by immigrants and it was successful due to immigrants. In most cases these immigrants want to work and some residents do not want to work. Capitalism at its best!

We just need a real guest worker program so the ones that want to work, pay taxes, etc. are legitimate and to insure we know who is in this country.

If the Arizona law required that every citizen, not just being suspected, had to be asked to show citizenship without regard to any opinion by a disgruntled law enforcement officer (zillion of them) when stopped for a traffic violation, I think this would be considered fair but then some (the fair skinned ones) would be outraged.

[JaredPointer]

Originally Posted by Bunky

If the Arizona law required that every citizen, not just being suspected, had to be asked to show citizenship without regard to any opinion by a disgruntled law enforcement officer (zillion of them) when stopped for a traffic violation, I think this would be considered fair but then some (the fair skinned ones) would be outraged.

I have to prove my identity (usually with a SSN# or some other type of naturalized/proof of citizenship document) any time I get a new job or apply for a credit card or buy a house, etc. Having to produce something showing who you are isn't racist, it isn't profiling, and it isn't picking on illegal aliens. I'm already tired of hearing this. You know what - when all the illegal immigrants from Mexico are Mexican and you stop Mexican looking people to find out if they're illegal or not, that's life. There's not exactly a lot of whiteys and black folk sneaking in from Mexico.

You know what - if it means getting illegals out of the country, I'm all for carrying around my birth certificate, SSN card, driver license, NRA card, fishing license, etc to prove that I am a citizen. It seems that the people who have a problem with proving who they are exactly the people we want gone anyway. I say (along with millions of other Americans) Bye-bye!

We need to quit making excuses for illegal immigrants. Or else we need to be fair, and start making excuses for all the other criminals in the US. I mean, we could come up with a cute little name for murderers - population control assistants, perhaps - and candy coat their crime too.

[Bunky]

Originally Posted by JaredPointer

You know what - if it means getting illegals out of the country, I'm all for carrying around my birth certificate, SSN card, driver license, NRA card, fishing license, etc to prove that I am a citizen..

I think we agree. I am in favor of a national identity card that does not use the social security number but I know many oppose this.

However, it is not like the millions here are going to leave and we actually need most of them as guest workers. There should be penalties for using workers that do not have a guest worker permit.

I think making them legitimate as guest workers will go a long way into getting more integrated in the society and reduce the ills that some claim come from Hispanic immigration (crime, etc).

[black bart]

[QUOTE=Bunky;316730]I think we agree. I am in favor of a national identity card that does not use the social security number but I know many oppose this.

However, it is not like the millions here are going to leave and we actually need most of them as guest workers. There should be penalties for using workers that do not have a guest worker permit.

I think making them legitimate as guest workers will go a long way into getting more integrated in the society and reduce the ills that some claim come from Hispanic immigration (crime, etc).[/QUOTE]This has been tried twice already, Didn't work then and won't work now.
All you are doing is naturalizing 30 million people whom are illegal and have no right to be here.

[Jodaddy]

Has anyone read Mexico's laws on illegal immagrition? Put in place to stop their neighboring countries from entering. Read it, its almost the same dang thing we're putting into action. Funny how its ok for them but when we do it its racial profiling. IM OVER IT, just makes me so damn mad

[Bunky]

Originally Posted by black bart

All you are doing is naturalizing 30 million people whom are illegal and have no right to be here.

I think the American Indians thought the same thing.

[JohnHenry]

Under Mexican law, it is a felony to be an illegal alien in Mexico.

Mexico has a single, streamlined law that ensures that foreign visitors and immigrants are:

- in the country legally;
- have the means to sustain themselves economically;
- not destined to be burdens on society;
- of economic and social benefit to society;
- of good character and have no criminal records; and
- contributors to the general well-being of the nation.

The law also ensures that:

- immigration authorities have a record of each foreign visitor;
- foreign visitors do not violate their visa status;
- foreign visitors are banned from interfering in the country’s internal politics;
- foreign visitors who enter under false pretenses are imprisoned or deported;
- foreign visitors violating the terms of their entry are imprisoned or deported;
- those who aid in illegal immigration will be sent to prison.

Another interesting fact: Mexico deports more illegal aliens annually than the US and Canada combined.

I'm just sayin'...

[GearHead_1]

Originally Posted by JohnHenry

...with a Secret government clearance...

We're not supposed to be telling people about these.

[black bart]

Originally Posted by Bunky

I think the American Indians thought the same thing.

So your point is 2 wrongs make it right.
Interesting how people will try to justify something that is wrong by pointing to something else that is wrong as if that makes either of them right.

It really don't matter what we think about it NOTHING will be done about it until 2012 and probably not then.
I did see on the noon news that the Governor of Arizona is going to sue the Obama administration for failure to uphold the law.

She has more balls than the men we have running things in Washington.

[Poorboy]

Originally Posted by Bunky

I think the American Indians thought the same thing.

I think that is 250+ million now

Let's play devil's advocate:

Let's say we figure how to get all illegals out of the country ...

1)they now vacate 10's of thousands of rentals ... who will rent these places?
landlords of these places now can't pay their mortgages or taxes ..thus more forclosures in a hurting housing market.

2) all the food and clothing stores where those people shopped can no longer stay open and can't pay their rent.. which goes to the owners of the shopping centers and stores who will now have high vacancy and can lead to them not being able to pay taxes.

3) fact is the poor always work week to week and spend almost all disposable income just to survive, unlike the wealthy who save the money or spend it where it will not help stimulate any economy.

4) once they are all gone there will be many parts of the US economy that will suffer much worse than it is now, including inflation for picked vegetables as well as clothing... stores including Walmarts, Targets, Big Lots, Goodwill , Grocery stores etc..

5) Poor neighborhoods will turn into ghost towns with higher crime, which will cost more for police protection which will be paid by higher property and state income taxes.

6) What about tourism? how many foreigners will want to come to the US to spend their money with the threat of being incarcerated for not having the proper documentation while hiking the Grand Canyon or throwing their money away in Vegas? Will it include Asians, Hatians, Africans, ect ?

The good side is that the freeways in California and other Southern states will have less traffic people in fast food restaurants will speak only english ..or will they and the lines at Jack in the Box will be short at 3am

If there's a easy or good fix to this problem ... I'm all for it but if you tell me I have to have ID to go on vacation or maybe get a tatoo with my ID# on my arm (shades of Germany circa 1940's) or have to have a bar code card that government can scan at their leisure to follow my whereabouts, then i think I'll pass

[GearHead_1]

The Devil's Advocate typically shares his beliefs as a matter of contrasting viewpoint. For every point listed there is a counter point. Now if someone could actually sit down and put dollars and cents to each side of the equation, politicians could get moving on a solution.

Originally Posted by Poorboy

If there's a easy or good fix to this problem ...

For us to think the fix for this problem to be easy or painless would be rather naive.

[Poorboy]

Originally Posted by GearHead_1

The Devil's Advocate typically shares his beliefs as a matter of contrasting view. For every point listed there is a counter point. Now if someone could actually sit down and put dollars and cents to each side of the argument.



For anyone to think the fix for this problem to be easy or painless would be rather naive.

well i don't live out there and it really doesn't affect me either way

I don't own houses or apartment to rent

I don't own shopping centers that rent stores

I do eat some hand picked vegetables



I got no solutions but I do know it won't be fixed by rounding up the usual suspects (casa blanca)

[GearHead_1]

Originally Posted by Poorboy

...well i don't live out there and it really doesn't affect me either way...

I believe from the big picture standpoint the issue affects everyone within our borders.

[Scott P]

I am sure the same rules will apply to the guy working at the chinese restaurant, the manicure girl at the nail salon and the poor guy who ends a sentance in "eh?". You can never be too sure.

[black bart]

Originally Posted by Poorboy

well i don't live out there and it really doesn't affect me either way

I don't own houses or apartment to rent

I don't own shopping centers that rent stores

I do eat some hand picked vegetables



I got no solutions but I do know it won't be fixed by rounding up the usual suspects (casa blanca)

QUOTE=Poorboy;316775]well i don't live out there and it really doesn't affect me either way

You pay taxes to support the 500 Billion dollars a year that it cost this country to have them here.