Another Smoking Gun in Toyota Saga

[black bart]

This may hurt NHTSA as much as Toyota

Another Smoking Gun in Toyota Saga - DailyFinance

[OCDinPDX]

You think that's harmful? Try this on for size!

Video: Smoking Gun? ABC News expert recreates sudden acceleration without CPU error code *UPDATED w/Toyota response — Autoblog

[Bunky]

The problem with these kinds of issues is that they are very difficult to reproduce so in order to create fault conditions you may apply a short or open in a circuit to prove the crircuit performs as expected but there may be other factors that make this valid or invalid.

[Beemerboy]

Bart you have an axe to grind with Toyota, don't you?

[Scott P]

Originally Posted by Beemerboy

Bart you have an axe to grind with Toyota, don't you?

I think the term is "Schadenfreude".

[Mr. Clean]

Well ScottP, you certainly sent me to the ol' Merriam-Webster with that one.

I can't speak for Black Bart, but the current Toyota woes are in the forefront of the national news services. Mr. Toyoda is visiting Congress today (I think). Toyota themselves seem to grasp the potential fallout from the reports and have rather quickly scrambled to put out an "apology" comercial. Paraphrasing "good companies err" "great companies learn from their mistakes". I'm a fence sitter here, I don't own, never owned a Toyota, but don't care if you do. My interest in this whole situation is to see what the actual backlash will be. We seem to be a society where perception often trumps reality. When people read that Toyota negotiated, perhaps vigorously so, to limit their responsibility will they perceive that as a prudent business practice or an attempt to minimize their financial liability, thus putting a dollar over customer safety?

[JaredPointer]

I'll try to be brief, so as not to bunch anyone's drawers.

1) I highly doubt Toyota is the only auto manufacturer to do this. I bet if you went deep enough into the rabbit hole, you'd see a lot of dirty laundry from all manufacturers.

2) It seems ironic to me that Congress (aka the government and majority stakeholder in General Motors) has lots to gain from Toyota falling down. They apparently can't make their cars look good on their own, so help from a faltering competitor is the next best thing. While I don't think that is at the forefront of the GM minds, I am sure they are comforted by the fact.

3) Having a poor quality reputation does not automatically bump you out of the market. In fact, you can look back and see who is the #1 recalled company since the NHTSA started keeping record (Ford, ahem) and see that piss poor quality can in fact be turned around in a short time frame. It wasn't long ago that Ford Exploders were catching fire WHILE SITTING PARKED AND TURNED OFF and burning folks homes down or their tires were exploding, flipping cars and killing folks. Yet Ford is still around, and the last time I checked were actually making profit after a few years of record breaking losses.

I still think Toyota will come out of this in the long run making better cars. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Ronkh]

Originally Posted by JaredPointer

snip...

2) It seems ironic to me that Congress (aka the government and majority stakeholder in General Motors) has lots to gain from Toyota falling down. They apparently can't make their cars look good on their own, so help from a faltering competitor is the next best thing. While I don't think that is at the forefront of the GM minds, I am sure they are comforted by the fact.

snip.....

I wonder besides the above if this is also a smoke screen to cover other stuff going on in the political community. Since this is very sensational, it seems to be a dominating factor for the "news".

[Mr. Clean]

Ford Exploder I wasn't aware of this issue

catching fire WHILE SITTING PARKED AND TURNED OFF and burning folks homes down

with the Explorers. I believe it was with the Crown Vic (Grand Marquis) though. A friend of mine is a Constable and his county issued cruiser did just that while sitting in his garage.

[JaredPointer]

Originally Posted by Mr. Clean

Ford Exploder I wasn't aware of this issue with the Explorers. I believe it was with the Crown Vic (Grand Marquis) though. A friend of mine is a Constable and his county issued cruiser did just that while sitting in his garage.

Yep - depending on which article you read online, the Ford Explorer is the most recalled vehicle of all time - with around 10-12 million units recalled between the Firestone tire issue and the spontaneous combustion issue.

Not that that takes away from the Toyota recall, just presenting the "other side of the argument" so to speak - i.e. that it happens with all manufacturers, not just evil old Toyota. And if you don't think Ford tried to reduce their liability or do a calculation of how much they could save if they avoided the recall then you're naive.

And in the '70's GM recalled about 7 million autos for - wait for it - unintended acceleration due to motor mounts coming off the frame and falling against the throttle. But yet, here we are and GM is still here, albeit propped up by government handouts.

[Ronkh]

Originally Posted by JaredPointer

And in the '70's GM recalled about 7 million autos for - wait for it - unintended acceleration due to motor mounts coming off the frame and falling against the throttle. But yet, here we are and GM is still here, albeit propped up by government handouts.

Not only did it jam the throttle, it also pulled out the vac boost hose from the master cylinder.

I had one.

The "fix" for it was an "8" shapped cable from the fram to engine.

[JohnHenry]

Don't get me going on the Ford F series high speed front end wobble. Absolutely correct... they all duck and cover when safety issues arise.

[Mr. Clean]

Originally Posted by JaredPointer

...Not that that takes away from the Toyota recall, just presenting the "other side of the argument" so to speak - i.e. that it happens with all manufacturers, not just evil old Toyota. And if you don't think Ford tried to reduce their liability or do a calculation of how much they could save if they avoided the recall then you're naive.
....

I'm not siding with either side of the argument. Just a somewhate interested outside observer interested in the human nature aspect. We've all seen and acknowledged what some of those issues, you've noted, did to the public's perception of quality of the Big 3. That perception was held long after adjustments/improvements to the overall quality were implemented. Will there be that same hangover effect with Toyota?

As for other manufacturers (auto and other) doing their best to mitigate their losses, I have no doubt. That's why they employ lawyers and accountants etc. Again, my point is on the perception vs reality in the eyes of the buying public.

[JaredPointer]

Originally Posted by Mr. Clean

Will there be that same hangover effect with Toyota?

I think so. It'll always be out there in people's minds for a few years at least. How long it lasts will probably depend on how well they address the issue(s), which is yet to be seen. Just from reading on the internets, the new CEO (Toyoda) seems to be taking a very hands on approach.

I think there will be some people who will swear off Toyota, and then there will be people who will still buy the best vehicle, and of course the Toyota brand loyal folks. While I have been very pleased with the Toyota trucks I have had, I wouldn't say I'm loyal to any one brand. If Chevrolet or Ford had made a better truck with what I wanted on it, I most likely would have bought it. They didn't, so bought a Toyota. It's hard not to have in mind the good treatment a vehicle gave you when you're looking to buy another, though.

[Mr. Clean]

Originally Posted by JaredPointer

I think so. It'll always be out there in people's minds for a few years at least. How long it lasts will probably depend on how well they address the issue(s), which is yet to be seen. Just from reading on the internets, the new CEO (Toyoda) seems to be taking a very hands on approach.

I think there will be some people who will swear off Toyota, and then there will be people who will still buy the best vehicle, and of course the Toyota brand loyal folks. While I have been very pleased with the Toyota trucks I have had, I wouldn't say I'm loyal to any one brand. If Chevrolet or Ford had made a better truck with what I wanted on it, I most likely would have bought it. They didn't, so bought a Toyota. It's hard not to have in mind the good treatment a vehicle gave you when you're looking to buy another, though.

Recalling some photos posted here, I feel quite certain that you don't have a whole lot of questions regarding body integrity.