The Hybrid Invasion is coming

[Mr. Clean]

Originally Posted by GearHead_1

Way cool, a number of years back I used to run several 10 second Mustang's. These ran time in the thin air of the Rockies. I had a half dozen different Mach I's (69 and 70) as well as a Boss 429 (kept it pretty OE) and a couple of Shelby's. These were of course old school with the exception of Nitrous. They were amazing old ponies. One of the 70's would run full street trim (spoilers, louvers, etc.) with just a set of circle track slicks bolted on the back (tire choices were much more limited in the early 80's). It had a Cleveland that would spin to 8500 R.P.M. and ran 10.11/136 m.p.h as it's best. I've loved Mustangs (ask YNOT) since before I began driving and have had a stable full. I give all members that have a Mustang the run down.

Those were some of the great years of the Mustang. Big and bold. All grown up from their Pony days of inception. The fastback Mach Is were eye catchers. And they ran pretty darned well back in the day without the need for the NOS boost. I owned the cousin, a '69 Cougar, red with factory black Eliminator hood stripes. 351 Windsor, A/T, black interior (no P/S, P/W)...fun, fun, fun

[GearHead_1]

I had a 69 Mach with a 4 barrel Windsor in it. These weren't terribly common, while 2 barrel Windsors could easily be found. Not as powerful as a 70 Cleveland but a cam swap, flowed heads with a 3 angle job, an Edlebrock intake with a Holley 700 made it run pretty good. The best part about it was when people asked and you answered that it had a Windsor they weren't terribly impressed but it would outrun most any Ricky Racer on the street. With that car it was all about picking your target, it made for a lot of $50 in the pocket Friday nights. Friday nights were grudge nights at the track.

[Mr. Clean]

I knew that some held the Clevelands in higher regard, but believe me, I rarely felt undergunned.

[GearHead_1]

Originally Posted by Mr. Clean

I knew that some held the Clevelands in higher regard, but believe me, I rarely felt undergunned.

No higher regard, the Windsor just didn't come from the factory with the goodies needed to make em' really go out of the box. The after market could rectify that. The Windsor certainly won the useful life war and are still the choice as a stroker motor when building one or the other today, just not using OE heads. At the time Clevelands were made the only OE heads that out flowed a them or Boss 302 head was D port Big Block Chevy. These Chevy heads had to feed an additional 100 cubic inches. The flow bench numbers were close, Big Block Ford, MOPAR and AMC didn't have anything that was a heads up comparison on the flow bench.

If you could build the bottom end and keep them together they could flat put some air through them (no secret, that's what it's all about). The result was a very high revving small block. Some of the Trans Am Boss 302's would run at 10,000 r.p.m. without a lot of expensive modifications. Actually too much air at lower revs and not the torquiest motors. The four bolt main was a plus when compared to the Windsor also. The heads just didn't meet Ford's needs when the gas crunch and emission standards came around and the Cleveland's life was doomed. Anyone needing heads and wanting to put an old Cleveland together should talk to me. I'm sure I still have 4 sets of them still around.

[Mr. Clean]

That's just it. Mine ran stock, and ran the streets just fine. Never tracked it, or even had a desire to do so, but running up and down the freeways and streets between Ft. Worth and Dallas she could more than hold her own against most. Good looks, good sound, good times.

[JPS51830]

Gearhead_1 - I wish I could find a reasonable 69-70 stang. But anything worthwhile is just so priced out of the ball park it's rediculous. Those cars you described would be a dream car for me. That was some era for muscle cars. And when I go to any shows they are the cars I look at and talk with owners the most. Those were the cars most of us had in high school in the early 70's. And we had no idea what we had either LOL. If I had kept my chevelle it's hard to imagine what it would have been worth today. A bone stock SS with a 396 in it. Wasn't pristine when I had it but loved it. I basically drove it till it died.

Ronkh, I have watched that video before. And one of our chowder heads a few years back decided to monkey around while I was in a roll over working to get the person out and popped an air bag. End result was it went off into my left ear, side of my head. I lost 85% hearing in that ear and had a double jaw fracture. I was literally leaned up against the steering wheel working to get her feet freed so we could extricate her. To say I was pissed is an understatement. But also some fault of mine for not making sure the vehicle was stable enough to be in doing what I was doing. And how time heals, we both became later on best friends and he was my 2nd deputy chief when I was chief of the department.

Mr. Clean, what most don't realize with Hybrid/Electrics are the power sources. I can guarantee you don't want to make the mistake of cutting into or tearing into one of the cables with out de-energizing and isolating the batteries. Especially if you need to make floor cuts to displace the dash. If it didn't kill you you would be lucky. And you still have all the othe stuff to worry about, fuels, oils etc. But like all new changes that face rescue personnel, we find ways to adapt techniques and train new techniques to be as safe and effecient we can for ouselves and those being rescued.

[GearHead_1]

Originally Posted by JPS51830

Gearhead_1 - I wish I could find a reasonable 69-70 stang. But anything worthwhile is just so priced out of the ball park it's rediculous.

I shouldn't speak without making a phone call but my very first car, a 70 Mach 1 with shaker is sitting in a friends garage. I bought it as a sopxxxxre in High School. I had to give up the basketball team in order to hold a job to pay for it. He bought it from me about 25 years ago took a few years and did a ground up restore on it. Drove it on weekends (never was a daily driver that I know of) for a few years and parked it on blocks in his garage in order to put a Holley Fuel Injection set up on it.

As you might suspect he never finished the job and it has sat there for over a decade. Recently he's hit me up about buying it back. As I don't have the body to back up my ambitions anymore, I haven't taken him seriously or even asked what he wants for it. I threw out a number jokingly ($25 - $30 k) and he said yeah maybe half that. It's in a good enough shape that it wouldn't take a fortune to put it into the stratosphere of a garaged, week end super star. It wouldn't need paint (black with a custom set of gold stripes) and the interior is new (seats, carpet, dash etc). It has a big buck stereo system in it but that was years ago. It's even got a Cleveland in it that I built, around 500 h.p. probably has less than 5000 miles on the rebuild. I'm sure that time has taken it's toll on seals and such.

I would really like to have this back but my heart just isn't in it, my leg likely couldn't push the clutch and my son just hasn't turned out to be a dedicated car guy. If I bought it, chances are it would sit in my garage too. I had a blue 70 that was a twin to this one, it was my all time favorite car, sold it to pay off my first house what a shame.

Sorry about straying from the topic. I get carried away talking about old Mustangs. Moderators can delete these posts if they desire.

[Ronkh]

Originally Posted by JPS51830

Ronkh, I have watched that video before. And one of our chowder heads a few years back decided to monkey around while I was in a roll over working to get the person out and popped an air bag. End result was it went off into my left ear, side of my head. I lost 85% hearing in that ear and had a double jaw fracture. I was literally leaned up against the steering wheel working to get her feet freed so we could extricate her. To say I was pissed is an understatement. But also some fault of mine for not making sure the vehicle was stable enough to be in doing what I was doing. And how time heals, we both became later on best friends and he was my 2nd deputy chief when I was chief of the department.

Mr. Clean, what most don't realize with Hybrid/Electrics are the power sources. I can guarantee you don't want to make the mistake of cutting into or tearing into one of the cables with out de-energizing and isolating the batteries. Especially if you need to make floor cuts to displace the dash. If it didn't kill you you would be lucky. And you still have all the othe stuff to worry about, fuels, oils etc. But like all new changes that face rescue personnel, we find ways to adapt techniques and train new techniques to be as safe and effecient we can for ouselves and those being rescued.

Face it, we do what we feel we have to when it comes ro rescues. It's tough standing around when you know someone is hurt/injured. Just glad you're ok now.

Originally Posted by Mr. Clean

I have to question your statement of hidden dangers and your inference that somehow hybrid vehicles present more dangers than other "modern" vehicles. With the advent of airbags, new dangers emerged for rescue workers (and passengers alike). These dangers are far from hidden.

And the reynolds wrap paperweight reference??? There were compact and sub-compact vehicles long before the hybrids made scene.

I'll reply to your comment backward.

As far a sub-compacts having been around for years. Yep. And supposedly more efficient and deffinately less expensive. But it does come at a safety comprmise. Regardless of what * rating fo the vehicle, put a Suburban up against Prius, Cobalt or any other econo box, which vehicle would you rather be in?

As far a hidden dangers..... Oh yeah they're there. Some examples are:
Placement of where the wires are.

Placement of sensors and computers. We used 3 different vehicles for airbag training. (same model different years) and the control modules were in different places.

Color of wiring for airbag wires. There is now a manufacturer standard, again on these vehicles there were different color wiring.

The different types of airbag systems themselves. Till a few years ago, the fuel used was sodium azide, now there is a canister pressurized to 1200 psi for a temp contrilled gas inflator.

Late cycle "improvements" change locations of sensors/modules.

Each vehicle has it's own unique bleed dwon/discharge time for abg systems. Holmatro still has sheets that they give with their tools. We used to include similiar sheets for the classes we did. Problems: (ex. Ford says cut power and wait 30 seconds. In their repair manual, they tell their techs cut power wait 30 min to work on system)

Hybrids are a new technology used in vehicles. Wires are all over the place. Cut one of those as JPS said watch out.

Ever see what happens when an Li batt is shorted. Not pretty.

So yes hidden dangers.

[Mr. Clean]

Well then by golly, advancements in technology just need to come to a grinding halt. And we all just need to drive Suburbans, that'll solve all the problems.

[CharlesW]

Originally Posted by Mr. Clean

Well then by golly, advancements in technology just need to come to a grinding halt. And we all just need to drive Suburbans, that'll solve all the problems.

Still trying to salvage that GM stock aren't you?

[Mr. Clean]

Somebody has to. I guess for balance I should have included the Expedition.

[occupant]

I like the EcoBoost setup. 365hp from a 3.6L V6. 230hp from a 2.0L four. 135hp from the little Fiesta 1.2 liter three.

My 351M made 148hp when new in 1976. I doubt it puts out that much now with all the coked up oil, the oil burning, and the pancakes of carbon that are probably on the pistons. But it has torque. GOBS of torque. And it pulls nice.

But as I wait for the guy with a 400cid FMX motor to call me back, and I ponder over throwing an AOD behind it to get my mileage up over 20mpg, I keep thinking, how else could I get better economy out of this car? Would be real nice for Ford to offer that 3.6 liter engine with a small-block Ford bellhousing. 365hp in this car would be awesome. Even if it was detuned for use with a simpler computer like an EEC-IV or EEC-V.

[Scott P]

Originally Posted by Ronkh

My point about the begining part of the post was that it's not as "clean and green" as people may think.

As far as the hidden dangers of emergency vehicle extrication involving a hybrid........ Fear mongering chain email ?!?!?!?!?! Yeah....

I teach extrication. The days of grabbing a tool and cutting the roof/doors off is long gone. If you're a fire fighter and this is the way you go about extrication, either retire or get a new Chief and Safety Officer, before you or someone else gets killed. Yes there are hidden dangers of just cutting...

Are you saying this stuff cuz you think you know or just trying to be arguementative?

I only made that claim since you tend to copy and paste other articles, emails, forum posts. Naturally, I figured your hidden dangers claim was just from one of those sources.

You do have a good knowledge of these systems. I just don't see why you are attacking hybrids for problems that many other cars have.

[Ronkh]

Originally Posted by Scott P

I only made that claim since you tend to copy and paste other articles, emails, forum posts. Naturally, I figured your hidden dangers claim was just from one of those sources.

You do have a good knowledge of these systems. I just don't see why you are attacking hybrids for problems that many other cars have.

Normally I tend to put down if it is a copied item (normally)

In this case it's not an attack, but a statement. I've seen too many people hurt from going in too fast, and too many people suffer more or die from going in too slow. These systems are more and more complex and rescuers can't/won't keep up.

The part that may be an attack is I believe that vehicles like this are rushed to service instead of well thought out. An example of this would be the ethanol usage. For years the production of ethanol fule wasted more fuel than it saved. But people who used it were hopelessly in love with the fact that they were doing something for the enviornment. Have you ever seen someone wailing on a prius? Wail on it and the "economy" tanks. But the driver feels good about themselves for taking care of the enviornment.