M105 vs. the flapping tarp

**jps** · 12-01-2001, 08:52 PM

Well, I had hoped that the winter dirt/sand/salt would just fall off my Blackfired car! Alas, that is not the case. And that slick feeling finish is no more

I could not stand the filth so I ran through touchless car wash, and the crud just does not come off clean. Meguir`s FI did not seem to work very well with the Blackfire, but that might just be a temperature issue (below freezing here).

The Blackfire QD did seem to work better, and I thought restored the slick finish... but then ran in the slop again and the slop seemed to BOND to the surface.

I have no experience with Zaino or Klasse in the winter slop so I cannot make a comparison, but I can state a deep sense of dissapointment. I suspect Zaino or Klasse would not fare any better in this environment, but if it warms up enough I will probably try Zaino again.

**imported_killerjg** · 12-01-2001, 08:54 PM

Yes, my Klasse car gets dirty when it rains. I do a weekly wash regardless of if it rained or not. Cleans up beautifully.

**imported_RIC** · 12-01-2001, 09:11 PM

I think your expectations were/are too high.

"Well, I had hoped that the winter dirt/sand/salt would just fall off my Blackfired car!"

That ain`t gonna happen no matter what product you use. Sometimes a heavy rain will do a pretty good job removing alot of crap though.

My car seems to clean up easier using Zaino and I would expect the same using other polymer products.

It still looks shiny from 20 ft or more away even when dirty because of Zaino`s great reflective properties but it doesn`t have a magical way of repelling dirt/sand/salt either.

"the slop seemed to BOND to the surface"--What do you mean?...Are you saying it could not be removed using a carwash solution?...and how many days/weeks did it take to "bond" to the surface?

**jps** · 12-01-2001, 09:22 PM

RIC - I ran through the car wash yesterday, and then wiped down with Blackfire QD. Today the crud from my drive home was firmly adhering to the surface. Another trip through the touchless wash and the crud was streaked down the panels. Yeah, the majority was removed but shoot... where is that mirror like finish?

You are right, I had high expectations. I expected the car would get dirty, but that it would be easy to rinse the crud off --> like a teflon coated pan.

Well, I guess I will need to learn how to use a wash mitt in freezing weather.

**rmccall6** · 12-01-2001, 09:24 PM

No miricle product is going to make dirt fly off your car a week after application, or even an hour for that matter. Blackfire, like zaino (i hear) is very slick, but i, like you have noticed that it looses some of its slikness after the first washing, but the car cleaned up beautifully and the dirt and water came right off. Klasse is worse in this regaurd, so i really have nothing to complain about.

**ISLANDSBEST** · 12-01-2001, 09:59 PM

Obviously, we have to revive that thread about Teflon coating our cars. The only problem is that we all agreed that to bond the Teflon to the cars requires baking at, what was it, 600 degrees? Well, who cared about the plastic trim, anyway.

**YoSteve** · 12-02-2001, 02:19 AM

Um Klasse actually looks better a week later (fully cured) the shine breaks through every time.

This week when it rained, the dirt actually did just slide off my car. On Wednesday my car was completely filthy, then on thursday my car got rained on all day and the rain just sat there (marinainting

) on my car. When I go home I hosed it off really well and it cleaned all the dirt right off. Remember I only wax twice a year and when I redid it recently it was still slick as ever from the last time I did it in April (sheet/beading rocks

).

If BF can`t do this at least then I probably won`t like it, when I get the chance to use it.

**rmccall6** · 12-02-2001, 11:12 AM

The BF doesnt loose any of its shine as far as i can tell, but I believe that since BF is fuly cured in about 30 min, as apposed to klasse which is fully cured in about 48hrs, then the BF shine wont improve as much as klasse, but it looks better than klasse all the time. As for the slickness, like i said before, dirt and water slid of the car better than klasse IMO.

autopia · 12-02-2001, 11:36 AM

jps,

I think I understand the problem.

Most HP car washes use very heavy detergents to clean. In my testing, Dawn will remove BF, Klasse, Zaino, Autoglym, Mirror Glaze, NuFinish, and most other sealants. I have not found one yet that can stand up to multiple HP washes if the carwash owner uses a hard wash detergent.

db

**jps** · 12-02-2001, 03:26 PM

Thanks autopia... I meant to avoid the commercial car wash, but it was truly a disgusting site to see my baby covered in crud.

Today it is above freezing, so I hand washed and it came out looking better (but still a little dull). Then I used the BlackFire quick detailer, and it still looked a little dull.

So, a new coat of the all-finish paint protection and YA BABY! Its looking good and feeling slick again.

I still love the Blackfire, I just wish for magic teflon coating. I will use hand wash all the time after this, and let you all know if the slickness and shine holds up better.

If not I am moving to SoCal.

**andrew43** · 12-02-2001, 03:33 PM

Yeah, most of the carwashes around here (the touchless ones are REALLY bad at this) presoak using a hydrofluoric acid solution. Of course the molarity isn`t that high, but still, it will strip pretty much anything off the finish (maybe not completely). I remember the days when I had my mr2, which suffered from oxidation. I would remove the oxidation with something like Meguiar`s Paint cleaner, put some glaze on (Meguiars #7) and then top with Meguiars #26. One day after I did this it rained so i figured I would run through the carwash. As soon as the water from the wash dried, I looked in horror as my 6 hours of work went to waste...everything was stripped and the oxidation was back.

**Lenny** · 12-02-2001, 07:20 PM

I hope I don`t get flamed on this, but the best thing I ever found in the winter time here in Detroit was two or three coats of Meguiar`s No. 20 Polymer Sealant [/b].

Plus, after going through the car washes (and touchless[/b] are prefered, I go over the whole car with either Final Inspection, or......and now I know I`m going to get flamed.....one of the so-called waterless car wash sprays[/b]!! PLEASE...no rude comments....I`ve tried this through three Detroit winters in a row (and man do we use tons of salt around here) and I end up with few swirl marks to get rid of when I detail again in the springtime.

No, I don`t clean the car with that stuff - I don`t want to scratch the damn paint!! But what ever either Prolong Waterless Wash & Shine[/b] or Amsoil Mircle Wash[/b] use to "enhance" the shine seems to help keep water beading on the car all winter long, and the winter crud and the car washes detergents don`t seem to defeat the Meguiar`s No. 20 Polymer Sealant [/b].

Please...no flames. All I know is this has been working for me for three winters in a row. And I can`t wait for spring, so I can break out the Porter Cable polisher, the Meguiar`s No. 9, No. 7 and No. 27[/b], and detail the cars properly.

**JasonC8301** · 12-02-2001, 10:30 PM

No flames intended.

The Meguiars #20 polymer sealant contains cleaners in it that will strip off/weaken the previous coat of #20. So in short, there will not be three coats of #20, maybe 1 to 1/2.

Also Meguiars #26 Hi-tech yellow wax is a good wax, but lacks in durability, get about 4 weeks on it. I prefer Blitz. If durability was not an issue, I`ll pick up my Souveran.

Just my 1 cent,

Jason

**Glozz** · 12-02-2001, 11:30 PM

<blockquote class=`ipsBlockquote` >

Originally posted by Likecars [/i]
Yes, my Klasse car gets dirty when it rains. I do a weekly wash regardless of if it rained or not. Cleans up beautifully. [/b]</blockquote>
Rain or shine, once a week here in Seattle as well. I use Zaino and it works great!

**ISLANDSBEST** · 12-02-2001, 11:52 PM

Len_A -- I understand your concern about flames. Fortunately, on this forum we recognize that flaming and rudeness will eventually destroy any forum. So, the few times it happens, it is quelled.

Also, although many of us have strong beliefs regarding the products we use, we try to keep in mind that there are always going to be better products, better techniques, and we don`t know everything. Therefore, we should not get too "married" to our favorite products and methods and, without compulsively trying every new thing, we should keep an open mind for better ideas. Evidence of effectiveness, not shouted opinions, is what matters. Flaming is destructive!