Seeking advice to polish these cars...

[Deutsch Marques]

I`m trying very hard not to ask noobie questions, but here goes. I`ve been researching the forums and interwebs for weeks and have taken lots of notes. Now I`m at the point where I want to turn my wish list into a shopping basket. But I need some advice from people with experience. Whereas I have none whatsoever.

I think I`ll get a PC, as they are economical for a hobbyist like me, well regarded, and should be more than adequate for doing my two cars. Plus it seems to have the capability to grow with me should I decide to do family and friends cars at some point in the future.

From my research, it seems that Lake Country CCS pads are heavily favored, and I would not go wrong with them. However, which exact pads to get... that is part of my uncertainty.

As far as polishes, this is where my head explodes! There is sooooo much information on the forums, and opinions, and redundancy even within brands, that I just can`t make sense of it. I was thinking Meg`s, particularly the M105/M205, but maybe that stuff is overkill for a hobbyist. Poorboys seems more up my alley...? Or Sonus, Pinnacle, or... or...

So... here`s what I have to work on. Take a look at my meh-quality pictures and if you have any recommendations for me, I would greatly appreciate it.

Daily Driver - 2005 VW Passat, Black (non-metallic). Paint is in decent condition. Some light swirls and spider webs. Bugs and grunge should be taken care of in the clay step. A couple chips, but I`ll worry about those later.










Fun Car - 2002 BMW M3, Carbon Black (blue-black metallic flake). Paint is not nearly as nice as the Passat. More swirls and webs, plus holograms in the sun. Several light scratches and a couple medium scratches. Bugs, grunge and chips taken care of separately like the Passat.

[PerroneFord]

Nice lookin cars!

When I first got into this game, I had the same issue with the polishes. There are just so many it`s hard to know what to do. Pads are a little easier. So though I am FAR from an expert on this, it breaks down pretty simply.

In pads and in polishes you generally have

1. Cutting (heavy, medium, light)
2. Polishing (heavy, medium, light)
3. Finishing

You are essentially looking at two variables. You can chose a pad that is dead center between heavy cutting and no-cut. And then vary the abrasiveness of the polish you put on that pad. You could take a medium abrasive polish, and go through the gamut of pads to get different cuts on the paint. Or you could vary both together.

When starting out, I think it makes most sense to buy a basic set of pads, and a basic set of polishes. And start there. So

Medium cutting pads, medium polishing pads, finishing pads. Buy 2 of each. Then purchase something like 105/205 or the Poorboy`s line of SSR2.5, 2.0, and 1.0. Buy one good sealant, and one good carnauba wax. This should set you well on your way for the paint. Make sure you have the tools to wash and clay properly.

As you gain experience, or have other needs, you might dabble in other polishes, waxes, or pads. Honestly, it`s mostly unnecessary. If you properly care for your car, shouldn`t need to compound it more than once. After that, it`s just maintenance work. Minor swirls, light scratches, etc. For that reason, I tend to have more finishing and light polishing pads than anything else.

So you simply need to chose a "line" of polishes. Some popular ones are Megs, Menzerna, Optimum, Poorboys, and a few others. Since I often have to detail out in the sun, I chose the Poorboy`s line. Some other products are finicky about having a cool surface. I bought a good over-the-counter compound (Megs UC) because I don`t plan on using it much. I have an upcoming job where M105 might be useful to me, so I may order some for that.

Hope this makes some sense.

[Mr. Clean]

I agree with your assessment of the PC. A very nice machine to begin with, all but foolproof. Plus, IMO it will give you a chance to determine if this "detailing thing" is up your alley (car reference ). Maybe it wont` correct as quickly as the Flex and not as quickly as a rotary, but you aren`t trying to make money with it.

LC pads are fine, I also like the Meguiars pads. I would get several polishing pads. Then depending on which polish(es) you decide on, maybe a cutting pad. If you want to do some "glossing/burnishing" by hand then get a couple of finishing pads.

Polishes...lots and lots of choices as you`ve read. I won`t recommend a specific brand, others will do that. I can only recommend buying a light polish to start with and be prepared to spend a little time getting the hang of the act of polishing. Another thing to consider is where you will be polishing. Indoors or driveway. There are going to be polishes that "flash" a bit too quickly out in the sun. I have not used either M105 or M205, but from all I`ve read neither of these products are beyond the hobbyist, new or seasoned.

A comment regarding your specific vehicles. IMO, the VW clear will be marginally harder to correct than the BMW.

[Deutsch Marques]

I will be able to do my work in my garage. And I can take my time as needed, since I can drive the car I`m not working on.

[PerroneFord]

I will be able to do my work in my garage. And I can take my time as needed, since I can drive the car I`m not working on.

An awesome luxury to have. I`d think it would be amazing fun to spend a week or so REALLY getting the M3 to look amazing, then driving it for a week while getting the daily driver sorted out to a level you like.

Some people want to detail their daily drivers to the point of shoiwcars. I don`t do that. I just like it keep mine relatively clean. I have several hobbies that dirty up my DD, so it would be a frustrating and pointless pursuit.

Have fun!

[RaskyR1]

You should be able to get good results with just about any good polish/compound, regardless of who it`s made by. That being said, I think M105/M205 is the way to go with a PC. I`ve not used the PB stuff yet so I can`t comment on them but the new Megs stuff with non-diminishing abrasives have really brought the PC up to a new level of correction. Pad choice and amount of pressure will very how aggressive M105 and M205 are.

I don`t think it really matters what manufacture pads you go with, just be sure to have several pads for each product and try to keep them seperate. It`s a good idea to have 2-3 for each polish when working on a car as they become saturated and less effective as you go.

I would suggest getting at least 3 of each of the following pads. If money is not a big issue then you will likely get a better price buying them in packs of 6.

3-6 light cutting pads (Orange LC/Maroon Meguiars)
3-6 polishing (White LC/Yellow Meguiars)
3-6 Finishing (Black LC/Black Meguiars)
3 Jeweling/waxing pads (Red/Blue LC)

IMO the CCS pads are not as good as the flat pads. I would either go with the flat LC or Megs pads.


Hope this helps,
Rasky

[Deutsch Marques]

Based on the photos I provided, do my cars look like heavy, medium or light correction? I ask because I`m kinda leaning towards the M105 and either M205 or another finishing polish. But I wonder if M105 would be too aggressive for what needs to be done.

Seems the M105 is the cat`s meow right now, from everything I`m reading about it. But it goes against everything else I`ve read about using the PC. Seems to work more quickly, and it doesn`t need to be broken down. So, how long do you need to work it using a PC, and how do you know when to stop?

[Troy@Protekt]

Based on the photos I provided, do my cars look like heavy, medium or light correction?

Impossible to tell by a photo how deep marring is or how hard the paint is. A test spot starting with your least aggressive first then work your way up to what gets it done. Each time you test a polishing step, make sure you test it on a fresh spot.

I ask because I`m kinda leaning towards the M105 and either M205 or another finishing polish. But I wonder if M105 would be too aggressive for what needs to be done.

Seems the M105 is the cat`s meow right now, from everything I`m reading about it. But it goes against everything else I`ve read about using the PC. Seems to work more quickly, and it doesn`t need to be broken down. So, how long do you need to work it using a PC, and how do you know when to stop?

M105 can be tamed with lighter pressure, slower speeds, and/or softer pads. That`s the case with any polish but with M105 results are quicker. It`s just a highly effective and versatile polish/compound.

It doesn`t break down but it does have a working time which is evident by the wetness of the surface. You will get a feel for how long you can work it. If you`re creating a lot of dust you are working it too long.

[Deutsch Marques]

Okay, I`m basically typing out my thought process here as I continue to read posts, search the interwebs, and consult my Ouija board and Magic 8 Ball. How does this process sound for my black/dark cars?

1. Wash
2. Clay
3. M105 (cut)
4. M205 (polish)
5. Poorboy`s Black Hole (glaze)
6. ??? (sealant)
7. Natty`s Blue (carnauba)

Should step 3 or 4 be eliminated?

Am I being redundant and spending excessively with more steps than needed?

I can`t figure out a good lasting sealant to put under the carnauba. I want something that will last a while. Ideas? Stick with the Poorboy`s theme and go with EX-P?

Can Natty`s be applied with a PC?

[PerroneFord]

Looks like you`re on the path. If you care for your car well, step 3 will only need to be done once, or maybe once every 3-5 years. Step 4 would be maybe twice a year. And step two maybe a couple times a year.

The glaze idea is probably not something I would do on my daily driver but that`s just me. It should amp the gloss up some though. For a sealant, I was mightily impressed with Optimum`s Poli-seal and others seem to like it. I have not yet tried PB EX-P yet. I`ve got a year`s worth of Poli-Seal, and months worth of KSG and the new Wolfgang Sealant. So I`m set for a while.

Natty`s Blue seems to get excellent reviews as does P21 100%. Clearkote`s RMG glaze product also seems to get amazing reviews on black cars. Lot`s of stuff out there to try. So take your pick and go at it! I`ll tell you what though, if you buy some glaze, I`ll do a trade with you and send you something I have. Just a few ounces should be plenty for me to test with. I`m doing some details this week where I will be testing a bunch of new products. Including doing my first rinseless wash. Trying new stuff is part of the fun of doing this.

[tuscarora dave]

That process looks good to me, though you may not need the black hole. I would say make that call after the 205 step. the flake in that paint is going to look awesome.

[dr_detail]

On the BMW... thanks for your posting of a prime example of swirls -- swirls are the by product of a high speed rotary polisher in either an inexperienced detailers hands, or an express detailer (quantity vs quality). Depending on how deep they are, they may not be able to be removed entirely with a PC (orbital) polisher. Always start with the least aggressive in a test spot then check your results. I don`t care for Megs products, nor am I a Poorboys user, so I will not say whether they will work or not.

I am familiar with other lines out there which work for me -- Starting with the BMW (after it`s been washed and clayed) I would grab my bottle of either Auto Glym`s Radiant with a heavy or medium (50-70PPI) cutting pad on a PC as a starting point. If this didn`t cut the mustard (so to speak) I would move up to Mark V`s UNO Polish with a medium or fine fine pad (70-80PPI). Uno does not contain any sealers or waxes so it needs to be topped. I would use something like Auto Magic`s BC2 applied with a finishing pad (90PPI) as a topper followed with a hand glaze.

On the VW, judging by the pictures it`s not in as bad as shape as the BMW -- after a good wash and clay; Radiant will probably do the trick with a medium pad, or BC2 with a cutting pad (50PPI) followed up with a hand glaze applied by machine with a ultra fine (90PPI) pad removed with a Micro Fiber folded in quarters placed on the paint under the pad.

Whatever method you use, please post your follow-up pictures

[blk45]

Okay, I`m basically typing out my thought process here as I continue to read posts, search the interwebs, and consult my Ouija board and Magic 8 Ball. How does this process sound for my black/dark cars?

1. Wash
2. Clay
3. M105 (cut)
4. M205 (polish)
5. Poorboy`s Black Hole (glaze)
6. ??? (sealant)
7. Natty`s Blue (carnauba)

Should step 3 or 4 be eliminated?

Am I being redundant and spending excessively with more steps than needed?

I can`t figure out a good lasting sealant to put under the carnauba. I want something that will last a while. Ideas? Stick with the Poorboy`s theme and go with EX-P?

Can Natty`s be applied with a PC?

Ok. The wash and clay step are a given. After that, you will have to just start trying combos until you achieve the results that you are after. You always want to start with the least aggressive method first, to save as much clear coat as possible.

105 & 205 is a great combo. These two products are very versatile. You can always alter a products cut potential by changing to different pad/pressure combos. However, 105 & 205 have a broader range of usage than conventional polish compounds and polishes. They should cover your bases for you. More on this in a moment.

Pad: I use and love the LC pads myself. CCS or flat? That`s personal preference, but there isn`t a huge difference between the two. If you are using the PC, I recommend the 5.5" pads. The machine is more capable with them instead of the 6.5". Anyways, they stack up like this:

Least aggressive to more aggressive. These are just some guidelines. They are not set in stone. As your knowledge grows, you will experiment with different combos to achieve different results, but this will get you started.

Blue/red/black/gray pads - all very soft finishing pads. These will be used for applying glazes, sealants, waxes or for burnishing the paint. Don`t worry about the burnishing. You will get to that later in your detailing life, once you start to get a grasp of all of this new info! The blue & red are interchangeable and have no cut. The black & gray have just a tiny little bit of cut.

White pad - polishing pad. This will be used for light polishing or for situations were you want the product to do most of the work and not the pad.

Orange pad - light cutting pad. This will be used for achieving a little more correction and usually with a "medium" polish.

PFW - Purple foam wool pad. Will do some very good cutting, but still leave a nice finish.

To get started, I would get one of each. PFW, orange, white and a blue. As mentioned, if you can afford to pick up a couple of each, it would be a good idea. It`s up to you.

Ok. this is where the combos come into play. In your situation, you would start with the 205 on a white pad. If that didn`t work, you can use the 205 on the orange pad. When you do this, the cut from the orange pad will enhance the ability of the 205 and provide more correction. If that didn`t give you the results that you desire, then you would step up to the 105 on a white pad. In this combo, the 105 will act more like a "medium" polish, versus a compound. If that didn`t work, you would step up to the orange pad. If your still not there, then it`s time for the PFW pad.

Once you have achieved the correction that you want, if you have gone past a light polishing, then you will want to step back down with a light polish and pad combo to clean up after the heavier polishing and refine the surface and bring out the gloss. Example: if you end up using the 105 on the orange pad, you would go back over it with 205 on a white pad.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Don`t be afraid to ask questions. I know it`s a lot to absorb, but you will slowly get the hang of it.

While the Black Hole Glaze is a great product and can be used with some sealants, I don`t recommend it. If you are going to go with just a wax, then you could use it. If you are going to go with a wax, Natty`s Red is a great wax. The Blue is good too, but I prefer the Red. Also, don`t get caught up in the sealant topped with a wax thing. You can do that, but it`s not necessary. I would just keep it simple for now. You have to realize that the majority of the look comes from your prepping of the paint (polishing). Waxes and sealants do have different characteristics and "looks" to them, but the majority of the "look" comes from the paint itself. The basic rule of thumb is that sealants will last a little longer than waxes, but most waxes will look a little deeper and wetter but will have to be reapplied more often. Also, waxes have a tendency to attract more dust and pollen than sealants. There are exceptions, but these are the general guidelines. For a very durable sealant that looks good, I recommend Duragloss 105.

I hope this helps instead of confusing you more!

Once you are ready to order, contact Troy either here or at Detail City - Auto Detailing Supplies, Car Care Products & Automotive Accessories and he can put together a package for you and give you any advice that you may need. He carries all of these products. If you hurry, you can take advantage of the sale he has going on right now for the Memorial Day weekend.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. That`s what we are here for!

[blk45]

BTW, I corrected this with 105 and a PFW. This was a Benz with Ceramiclear (very hard) paint.

[Deutsch Marques]

The BMW does have a lot more swirls/holograms than the VW. I`m pretty sure it was caused when they detailed the car for me upon sale. I bought it last year, and the import dealership I went to also preps a lot of German cars for the auctions. They must plow through a car every 30 minutes. Needless to say, when I asked that the car be reconditioned as part of the sale, I`m sure I got one of their 30-minute specials. Oh well... what can you do?

Based on the feedback (Thanks guys!), it sounds like I was going a little overboard in my last post. Instead it sounds like I should...

1. Wash
2. Clay
3. M105/M205 as needed
4. Sealant or Wax, not both

My wallet likes this simplified process a little more. I like the idea of a "brain melts when you look at it" look that a carnauba can provide, but I think a longer lasting sealant would be more prudent to a hobbyist like me who may not have the time to re-wax every couple weeks. Now... to take all the suggestions and boil them down into a result.

I hope to get my wishlist finalized into a shopping list by the end of this weekend so I can take advantage of the many sales.