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16v Mentalist
WX51 TXR is an incredible help to Autopiaforums.com members!WX51 TXR is an incredible help to Autopiaforums.com members!
 
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Question WX51TXR vs Limited Edition 350Z GT4 - My best work yet? - 07-11-2006, 07:10 AM

A long road trip south of the border to Newcastle for this one, and a stay overnight, as my usual long distance cruising speed has had to be almost halved since I was pulled last month doing over a ton. I was contacted by the owner about a month ago, and the pics he e-mailed through were scary! A very bad case of the swirls, on a limited edition 350Z GT4 with full bodykit. I had estimated that this one would take me 8-10 hours, and in the end it took 11 hours, due to a heavy rain shower late in the day.

When I arrived at 8am the sun was beaming down, and the first thing I noticed were the swirls - not good on a car that draws a lot of attention. I didn’t need the halogens to tell me how bad this one was going to be, but I figured the paint would be soft – this turned out to be correct, but what I didn’t plan on was extremely thin paint. Put simply, if I hadn’t of had my paint thickness gauge with me, I would have done one of two things to this car. Either I wouldn’t have corrected half the defects (by going at it too gently), or I would have removed too much clear (by treating all panels the same). I have seen a few arrogant remarks posted on forums recently concerning the need for paint gauges – in my opinion they are an essential tool, even for PC only users like me. Hopefully the rest of this thread will show you why…

Here’s how the car looked when I arrived…



Looks great, but in the sun the problems soon become visible…



And more unpleasant up close…



The owner had very kindly washed the car the night before and garaged it overnight, so a full wash was not required – I simply quick detailed the whole car with JEFFS Werkstatt Quick Wash and a couple of plush towels. Then I set to work claying with Meguiars Detailing Clay – this only took 30 minutes, as the car was very clean – only the doors shows signs of significant contamination, on most other panels the clay came up clean. I then masked off all the trims, and set to work on the roof, which looked like this…



Lots of brush marks, swirls and even the odd rotary trail. I took paint readings with my PosiTest DFT over the whole panel, and found an alarming average thickness of ~80 microns, with some areas only reading 70 microns. I started out with Blackfire SRC Finishing Polish using a LK green finishing pad. I made a light initial attempt (1st pass at speed 1 to spread, then multiple passes at speed 4 until ready to buff) and observed little improvement, and no significant amount of paint removal (precision of paint gauge is +/- 2 microns). I then repeated, this time using more pressure and speed. Once again, no big signs of improvement, and no significant paint loss, so I switched to a LK orange light cut pad and did the same again. This time, I saw a noticeable improvement in the defects, at the expense of 4 microns across the panel. However, with the defects persisting and the paint thickness down to ~65 microns in places, I decided that would do. The results were satisfactory…



I then did the rear end of the car, and followed the same procedure as above. Much of the rear end was composite, meaning I could take no paint thickness readings, so I assumed the roof results would be applicable to these panels and backed off before all of the defects were completely out. I then moved along the drivers side, starting with the quarter panel. Here’s the befores…





And the afters… I had more paint to play with here (~90 microns on average), so I made two attempts with the light cut pad and the SRC Finishing Polish.





The same procedure was used on the door…





And the wing…





Here’s some close up shots of the work on the wing…





Then I decided it was time for lunch… so I sat down and looked at the work done so far.



Felling refreshed, I tackled the other side of the car, using the same method as before (SRC Finishing Polish via LK orange light cut pads, two attempts per panel as long as paint thickness averaged more than ~90 microns. Here’s an after shot of the quarter panel…



Before shot of the door…



And after…



Before shot of the wing…



And after…



By this time, the sky was darkening and threatening rain, so I switched to a LK black glazing pad and went over all of the areas I had corrected with Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish (at speed 3, multiple passes until drying and ready to buff) – this took about 20 minutes, and I applied it to all panels before going back to the starting point to buff off. I then applied Blackfire Wet Diamond by hand to the same areas, which took another 20 minutes. At this point I stopped and drew breath, as the spits of rain were easing, and I was only left with the bonnet to do. Here’s a couple of shots after the above work…





Next up, I tackled the bonnet. The brush marks in it were bad, but fortunately the paint thickness was greater than on the rest of the car (~100 microns on average). As I had not achieved full correction on many of the other panels, for fearing of removing too much paint, I laid into this one a bit more with SRC Compound using a LK orange light cut pad. One attempt did the trick (1st pass at speed 1 to spread, then multiple passes at speed 5 until the residue turned translucent, indicating that the abrasives were done). Paint thickness readings revealed this had removed ~10 microns from the bonnet, and left a lot of heavy micromarring. However, one pass attempt with SRC Finishing Polish applied using a LK green finishing pad took this out completely, leaving a perfect finish. I then went over the bonnet with the Gloss Enhancing Polish and Wet Diamond, as described above for the other panels. No photos of this work I’m sorry to say, as time was pushing on and the few that I took suffered from poor lighting. I finished up on the front bumper, using the method described above for the rear end of the car.

With the correction done, I turned to the finishing touches. The wheels got Poorboy’s Wheel Sealant and the tyres Blackfire Long lasting Tyre Gel. Just as I finished this task a heavy shower passed over and soaked everything! However, this seemed to clear the sky a bit, and within half an hour the sun made a reappearance, so I quickly rinsed the car off and dried it carefully using waffle weave towels after soaking all surfaces liberally in Blackfire Deep Gloss Spray (to help the water sheet off and help prevent towel marks). By this time it was well past my estimated finishing time, and with the owner expecting guests, we called it a day – forgive the wet wheels in the final shots. So, maybe my best detail yet in terms of what I corrected safely, and what I left safely in place – the owner understood these decisions, and I hope the benefits of having and using a paint gauge are clear. I wouldn’t have been able to fully correct the bonnet without it, and I may have gone too far on the roof.

Here’s the afters…















Richard Cooper - Seat Leon 1.6S 16v
   
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Re: WX51TXR vs Limited Edition 350Z GT4 - My best work yet? - 07-11-2006, 09:46 AM

Great post! Man, where's that dancing smiley with both middle fingers up when you need him? I say "take that!" to all the rotary snobs who say the PC can't do fine work.


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Re: WX51TXR vs Limited Edition 350Z GT4 - My best work yet? - 07-11-2006, 11:44 AM

GREAT work!

Love the write-up, too!
   
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Re: WX51TXR vs Limited Edition 350Z GT4 - My best work yet? - 07-11-2006, 01:06 PM

Now that looks good!
   
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Re: WX51TXR vs Limited Edition 350Z GT4 - My best work yet? - 07-11-2006, 01:56 PM

Very good work.
   
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Re: WX51TXR vs Limited Edition 350Z GT4 - My best work yet? - 07-11-2006, 02:43 PM

Paint thickness readings revealed this had removed ~10 microns from the bonnet

Wow - with the depth (of the paint above the metal body) being around 100 - how much of that do you think was the clear top coat? If the depth decreased by 10 I would assume that the clear top coat would be the first to go...How many microns do you think the clear top coat is to begin with?

I am assuming this car has clear coat and is not a single stage paint...

Sometimes - the above concern makes me question the worth of a detail - it's a toss up between losing that much depth in the paint or living with swirls.....

Please note - I am not questioning your technique/decisions - I am just a novice with some questions that I thought I would ask...
   
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Dan's Detailing
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Re: WX51TXR vs Limited Edition 350Z GT4 - My best work yet? - 07-11-2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gandblah
Paint thickness readings revealed this had removed ~10 microns from the bonnet

Wow - with the depth (of the paint above the metal body) being around 100 - how much of that do you think was the clear top coat? If the depth decreased by 10 I would assume that the clear top coat would be the first to go...How many microns do you think the clear top coat is to begin with?

I am assuming this car has clear coat and is not a single stage paint...

Sometimes - the above concern makes me question the worth of a detail - it's a toss up between losing that much depth in the paint or living with swirls.....

Please note - I am not questioning your technique/decisions - I am just a novice with some questions that I thought I would ask...

I'm sorry but take a 3 seconds and rear your post.


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You are ASSUMING that a new 350Z has a clear coat finish? You should KNOW that!!!! Not to be a prick here, but come on.

Its never an alternative in our industry to leave swirls. Even if the total paint thickness is 60 microns, at teh very minimum, the car can be lightly polished and glazed and sealed at a 300% decrease on swirl marks and imperfections.

No car manufacturers use single stage paint out of the factory anymore.. its all base/clear.
   
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16v Mentalist
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Re: WX51TXR vs Limited Edition 350Z GT4 - My best work yet? - 07-11-2006, 04:40 PM

From what I have read, most modern three stage paint systems feature a thin basecoat (say around 30 microns), a thin pigment layer (say around 30 microns, and the rest is the clear (around 40 microns on Jap cars). On Euro cars the overall paint thickness is greater - typically 130 microns, so you have a bit more clear to work with. I usually like to remove no more than 10% of the clear, particularly on newer cars - they may need to be compounded several times in their lifetimes, so better to go easy and remove as much as possible whilst still playing safe. As our man above says, what persists can be filled and sealed, and that's exactly what I attempted above, by using the Gloss Enhancing Polish (which contains fillers) and then sealing this in with Wet Diamond. However, not everything can be hidden, as the above pics show if you look carefully. I haven't met a customer yet who flamed me for such decisions.


Richard Cooper - Seat Leon 1.6S 16v
   
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Re: WX51TXR vs Limited Edition 350Z GT4 - My best work yet? - 07-11-2006, 04:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKKNE
I'm sorry but take a 3 seconds and rear your post.


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2




3


You are ASSUMING that a new 350Z has a clear coat finish? You should KNOW that!!!! Not to be a prick here, but come on.
For someone not trying to be a prick, you sure do a good impression of one.


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Re: WX51TXR vs Limited Edition 350Z GT4 - My best work yet? - 07-11-2006, 06:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jngrbrdman
For someone not trying to be a prick, you sure do a good impression of one.

I know I know.. I am sorry..
   
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Re: WX51TXR vs Limited Edition 350Z GT4 - My best work yet? - 07-11-2006, 08:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKKNE
I know I know.. I am sorry...
Plus Honda S2000's and some Lexus' come of the factory with SS paint (I think...)so maybe you should re read your post

Now WX51TXR, you my friend are a fine detailer. This, along with past details shows your dedication to details not only on the car but posting it as well. That 350z came out great. Keep up the good work.


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Re: WX51TXR vs Limited Edition 350Z GT4 - My best work yet? - 07-11-2006, 08:51 PM

TXR another great write up and another amazing detail.

I think the shot with the camera and the bananna is priceless.

Just a quick question, I take it you are referring to Lake Country when you say LK or is that another different pad manufacturer

"J"
   
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Dan's Detailing
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Re: WX51TXR vs Limited Edition 350Z GT4 - My best work yet? - 07-11-2006, 09:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by budman3
Plus Honda S2000's and some Lexus' come of the factory with SS paint (I think...)so maybe you should re read your post

Now WX51TXR, you my friend are a fine detailer. This, along with past details shows your dedication to details not only on the car but posting it as well. That 350z came out great. Keep up the good work.

S2000's and Lexus do NOT have single stage paint..
   
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Re: WX51TXR vs Limited Edition 350Z GT4 - My best work yet? - 07-11-2006, 09:21 PM

Don't shoot the messenger...but I've heard these cars have no clearcoat (does that count as "single stage"?)

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Re: WX51TXR vs Limited Edition 350Z GT4 - My best work yet? - 07-11-2006, 10:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKKNE
S2000's and Lexus do NOT have single stage paint..
Depends which year, lexus did not have clear coat on their cars for a long time, especially on their black cars, until 2001 i believe.
   
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