Foam gun problems. Need help!

[BookemDano]

This is for current foam gun users.



I bought an Auto Magic Foam Gun. When I got it, I noticed that it didn`t look like the Butchers Foam Gun. But I thought, well it`s probably OK. Now I`m not sure.



When I spray foam on the car, it`s sudsy water, not foam. My water pressure is 55 PSI (I measured it). I used a heavy concentration of Zaino Z7 in the bottle. The mixture setting was from A to E (light to heavy).



Here`s the foam gun:







Frankly I`m disappointed. I was expecting better. But I don`t know if my expectations are too high, my technique is bad or the Foam Gun is defective.



Questions:



- If you have an AutoMagic Foam Gun, does it have a brass mix valve? Or does it look like mine?



- What is your mixture of car wash concentrate to water in the foam gun?



- Do you get foam or or sudsy water?



- Do you have any special tricks to generate foam?



Thanks and regards,



Dan.

[OI812]

BookemDano



I do not have the Auto Magic Foam Gun, so I may not be of any help. I will give you my experience with my gun. I do get foam out of my gun, in fact I had posted pictures up from when I used the gun on a truck. Do a search on foam guns, I had pictures up of it. I had real good clinging foam on the vehicle. I`m not saying that it didn`t run, but it was not soapy water.



Did you try the gun from light to heavy settings, and did it make any difference?



I see you were using heavy concentration of Zaino Z7. I haven`t used this soap, but is it around the consistance of NXT? I think Bill said he used NXT straight, but I dilute my soap down. It may be that the concentrate is so thick that the gun is pulling enough up to create foam.



Your gun looks different then my gun, but the basic principle of operation you would think would be the same. Is it possible you might have a piece of dirt stuck in the orfice where the soap is drawn up?



I`m just trying to give you ideas of what might make it work better. I would even PM Bill and the Accumulator they maybe able to help you more. Hope things work out for you.

[Bill D]

I`m here :wavey



Dan,



I can only reiterate what OI812 said. We have the Butcher`s/Gilmour so it`s not exactly the same.



However, I coulda swore the owner of the detail store where I got mine has the same as you pictured and in fact, when I bought mine I thought that was the one I`d be getting.



If you can`t get it to work and no else can help out I`d either contact AM directly or maybe I can put you in touch with the the detail store owner and perhaps he could give you some suggestions since he has the same one :nixweiss



I`ll follow this post closely to see how you make out

[BookemDano]

OI812, Bill,



Thanks for the feedback.



The gun is brand new and completely clean. I can`t see any clogging. I tried every setting from strongest to weakest concentration. I washed my Audi and my wife`s Subaru (not large cars). That used about 1.5 gun bottles of car wash.



When I mixed it the first time, I used about 6 capfuls of Z7 car wash to one bottle of water. (Normally, 6 capfuls is plenty for 4 gallons of water in a wash bucket.) This bottle only lasted long enough to finish the Audi and gave sudsy water.



Then I mixed a second bottle and upped the concentration heavily. This was a little better, but not much. Again, there was sudsy water. I used it sparingly on the Subie, but still went through about 1/2 bottle.



What was really bad was that a lot of the mixture flowed off of the car or into the cracks (hood, doors, etc.). The stuff was so heavy that it took several rinsings just to get it out of the cracks. And a lot of it ended up on the driveway. I.e., it didn`t just disolve and rinse away.



As I mentioned above, I tried every concentration setting. The only real difference that I could see was that the heavy concentration setting used more product and gave more sudsy water. The amount of "foaming" wasn`t appreciably different.



I also varied the amount of water going into the gun from weak to strong. Didn`t make a difference.



And, I tried it with and without the supplied gun handle. Again, no difference.



Frankly, I`m concerned that the AutoMagic gun is a cheap (but more expensive) copy of the Butcher`s gun. I.e., it appears that the Butcher`s gun has a brass fittings to make foam (Yes? No?) and the AutoMagic gun has plastic fittings to make foam.



I`ll contact AM, but I would appreciate any suggestions.



Bill, I`m very curious about something. You said that the store carried the same (or similar) gun that I have, but you got the Butchers (or similar) gun from the store. I`m confused. What happened?



Bill, OI812, what is the concentration setting that you use?



Thanks and regards,



Dan.

[Bill D]

Dan,



Yeah I sorta was too. The AM foam gun the store owner has, who is an AM dealer , is the same as the one you have yet he sells the Gilmour. When I got it I was concerned because it was not the same as he has ( which he demoed for me and worked great) but then Accumulator told me I in fact do have the same one he has. All was well from there.



What you describe seems to be a symptom of water pressure that is too low or possible a kink somewhere in your hose you overlooked? :nixweiss.



Keep us posted .

[Accumulator]

Hmm...not sure what`s going on. I dunno what my water pressure is, but it *is* boosted with an auxiliary pump. Sorta-random thoughts follow:



There`s foam and then there`s *FOAM*. It`s not like the gun makes shaving cream-thick foam or anything like that. But I do think the rest of us are getting more foam than you are.



The part of the gun that does the foaming looks the same. I dunno if your rotary valve is functionally different from our brass bar/orifice valves or not but I wouldn`t think so. Could be though...



Are you using a large-diameter hose? Volume *and* pressure are both important.



I just mix my soap by eye, and I`m using a different shampoo. I`m pretty sure I don`t use as strong a mix as you are using with the "six capfuls per bottle" though. I`m so casual about the mix you just wouldn`t believe, but it always works fine so I`m probably fairly consistent (having done it so often). I`ll use maybe four-six pumps on the gallon jug`s dispenser (each one an ounce? Beats me...) in a gallon jug filled the rest of the way with water. I fill the gun from this and adjust the gun`s mixture valve to provide what I want.



I`d try a different shampoo myself. All I`ve ever used with mine is the Griot`s Car Wash, so I dunno about how others will work with it.



I do go through a *lot* of shampoo, several gunloads per vehicle but then I`m sorta extreme about my washing I consider soap a renewable resource (unlike clearcoat and time) so I don`t even think about it. Yeah, it does get into the panel seams, etc, but it rinses out OK and actually cleans them up pretty well (I`ve smoothed/polished the paint in the jambs, etc, and sealed it really well so the extra shampoo is enough to clean things).



The way your excess soap doesn`t rinse away easily tells me that the soap/mix/both isn`t right for the application.



If I weren`t on the other side of the country I`d ask you to send the gun to me for a side-by-side comparo with the Butchers/Gilmour one.

[Bill D]

Originally posted by Accumulator

I do go through a *lot* of shampoo, several gunloads per vehicle but then I`m sorta extreme about my washing

Whoa!



How far do you fill the gun when you wash? That seems like a gigantic amount of soap!

[Accumulator]

Originally posted by Bill D

Whoa!



How far do you fill the gun when you wash? That seems like a gigantic amount of soap!

Maybe 2/3 full or so. Most of the time I probably only use two gunfulls unless I spill it (the bottle seems to come unscrewed pretty easily) but I have two buckets of wash mix too. Do use more on the MPV though and also on the S8 if it`s really dirty. Extra for the areas I spot-clay too. Good thing the Griot`s is easy on my LSPs, what with how much I use.

[OI812]

Originally posted by BookemDano



Frankly, I`m concerned that the AutoMagic gun is a cheap (but more expensive) copy of the Butcher`s gun. I.e., it appears that the Butcher`s gun has a brass fittings to make foam (Yes? No?) and the AutoMagic gun has plastic fittings to make foam.



Bill, OI812, what is the concentration setting that you use?



Thanks and regards,



Dan.

Dan I really can`t tell you what concentration I am using. I`m kind of like the Accumulator, in that I use alot of soap. I am one of those guys who does the precise measuring of a gob or splash, or maybe just a wee bit more. I`m not even sure of what the ratio`s are on my gun. If you need to know let me know and I will send you a copy of my manual. Towards the gun having a brass fitting yes it does. The Accumulator has a good idea about comparing the two guns, just food for thought. Please keep us posted as to what is happening with your gun.

[CTDiesel]

I would think the foam is made in the black plastic piece downstream of the dial head where the soap mixture is mixed with the water. If you look at the black plastic piece there appears to be a converging nozzle, a hole and then a diverging nozzle. I bet the hole is the point where air is mixed with the soap mixture/water to produce the foam.



Check the black plastic piece for obstructions that may impede the air into the hole and the movement of the soap mixture through the mixing head and black plastic piece. For the most foam you want to maximize the entrance of air into the soap mixture/water stream and minimize the back pressure from the outlet nozzle. But, DO NOT increase the diameters beyond the factory diameter.



I may be wrong, but its worth checking.

[BookemDano]

Thanks for the great feedback. I`ll keep working on the issue.

[Bill D]

Per Accum`s consultation, I use the second to last slot ( second largest concentration) on the brass lever

[jchetty]

i just picked up my foam gun and mine definetly looks a lot different...i will post a pic 2morrow

[Bill D]

J!



Welcome to the club! Did you get it from Mark at Pal?

[BookemDano]

Originally posted by Bill D

Per Accum`s consultation, I use the second to last slot ( second largest concentration) on the brass lever

Bill,



Thanks.



BTW, I got have good waterflow and 55 PSI pressure. I measured the pressure at the end of the hose that night using a water pressure gage (it`s specifically meant to hook to a hose or hose bib).



Hmmm... You used lots of concentrate. I tried the least, middle and strongest. Well, I`ll try the second to last. (I`m still concerned about gun quality because your foam controller is brass and mine is plastic.



Also, how good is your water pressure? High? Medium? Low?



Also, what brand of car wash are you using?



Thanks and regards,



Dan.