Polish / Wax combination?

[twopu]

I know this question has been asked a million times but I need to order my wax and polish in time for this weekend. It appears that this is the last weekend that we are going to have at 70 temps (in NJ) for a long time and I want to get my car ready for the winter. I just ordered my PC last know so I`m getting ready.



First is DACP to aggressive for a car (black) that has swirls mark and light scratches? Where do you order yours from online? The closest local dealer from me is 2 hours away. I found a sight that is selling a gallon for $20. Is this a good price and a legit site. http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/MEG-M8301.html



What would be a good durable wax to apply to the DACP? Should I stick with a Mequiars product?



Should I just skip all of this and just go with AIO?



Any suggestions on a polish and wax?



THANKS

[jeremyp111]

Well you picked a good weekend to do your work. Here is my opinion and answers to your questions.



I just ordered my PC last know so I`m getting ready.



Great move. You`re going to need it if you want to remove swirls and light scratches.



First is DACP to aggressive for a car (black) that has swirls mark and light scratches? Where do you order yours from online? The closest local dealer from me is 2 hours away. I found a sight that is selling a gallon for $20. Is this a good price and a legit site. http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/MEG-M8301.html



No. DACP is a good product to use for swirls. I`ve never bought anything from that site, but $20 is super cheap for a gallon size. I got DACP direct from Meguiar`s web site, but you can get it from lots of places.



What would be a good durable wax to apply to the DACP? Should I stick with a Mequiars product?



Before applying a wax you should use a final polish. Something like Megs #9 SR or Megs #82 SFP would work very well. This step will enhance the gloss of the paint. Get them from the same place you get DACP from to save on shipping. As far as waxes go that`s a whole other ballgame. I personally like the Klasse twins (AIO&SG) for the shine and durability. I also top it with Poorboys EX to go the extra mile, but you would be very happy with AIO/SG. There are a lot of good waxes out there. P21S , Pinnacle Souveran, S100, Megs #26, etc.



Your basic plan would go like this:



Wash and dry

Clay (use car wash soap w/ water as a lubricant)

DACP w/PC and yellow pad

Final Polish (#9 or #82)

AIO

SG(2-5 coats)

Wax(optional)



Hope this helps.



Jeremy

[twopu]

Jeremy thanks for all the info. I thought I could get away with DACP and a wax or AIO only. I thought they would remove the scratches and swirl marks and that the AIO would be the protective wax. Are the final polish and SG necessary or can I just get away with DACP and AIO?

Thanks

[jeremyp111]

Well, you can go from DACP to AIO, but it`s not what I would do. If you are set on going with DACP and wax or AIO, then I would use a cleaner wax or AIO. You will need the cleaning properties in AIO or a cleaner wax after DACP. AIO is a very good cleaner and should do a pretty good job after DACP. I can say from experience and a lot of trial and error that you will get better overall results by using a final polish after DACP.



SG is not absolutely necessary. AIO is exactly what it says, cleaner/polish/protectant. If you put SG over AIO you will notice a difference. If you put 2-3 more coats you will notice even more of a difference and get better protection. It all depends on how far you want to take it, the time you have to do it and what is an acceptable final appearance for you.



Jeremy

[biff]

Originally posted by twopu

I thought I could get away with DACP and a wax or AIO only. I thought they would remove the scratches and swirl marks and that the AIO would be the protective wax. Are the final polish and SG necessary or can I just get away with DACP and AIO?

Thanks

You certainly CAN get away with going to a wax right after DACP as long as you make sure to work the DACP in until it breaks down completely.



If the DACP causes any dulling of the finish (personally, its NEVER happenened to me), then use a less agressive product to polish before waxing, like #9 SMR.



My steps on a vehicle that I haven`t cleaned before is to:



1. Clay

2. DACP (should leave the squeeky clean and swirl free)

3. Mother`s Sealer Glaze (to fill in any remaining swirls and leave a slick finish)

4. S100 for protection



When detailing this vehicle again I would simply use steps 3 and 4 (or start with #9 SMR if there are a few swirls.) Rarely would I use DACP on that vehicle again unless there were new scratches or if it was after a hard winter.



I really don`t see a need for the cleaning component of AIO after DACP. A pure wax or sealer is all that`s needed as DACP will leave the surface perfectly clean.



Hope this helps.

[twopu]

I`m so confused. After talking to a guy at CMA he said that I can`t use DACP and AIO. He said that I would remove any DACP once I apply the AIO. He said to do the AIO then the DACP but he said that he was not sure if they would work well together.



Maybe I should start over. I just ordered my PC for my black car with light scratches and swirls. I want to get rid of the swirls and scratches and protect the paint for the winter. What are the basics that I need. I thought I could go DACP --> AIO-->SG but I`m finding that I need to do more. Griots Garage said that all I need is their Machine Polish and Wax and I`m done.



Sorry for all this but I am so confused and reading more threads just screws me up. Thanks

[blackntan]

OK.. here we go..



DACP is a cleaner/polish. It removes swirls, then adds a polish to hide even more swirls.



AIO is a cleaner/protectant. it removes swirls and layers a protectant on, giving the car a layer of protection.



Either one of these remove EVERYTHING that is under them, as part of the cleaning process.



You`d be better off going with a single stage swirl remover, such as FI-II or SMR, then with the AIO, or if you like the DACP, go with that then a polish or wax.



I`d recommend the FI-II, AIO, and SG, as it`s the most potent, shiney, and protective combo i`ve ever seen.



Here`s my car, (also in SJ, oddly enough), with that exact combo on it... I love it. It`s the slickest i`ve ever felt the car...



http://miata.cardomain.com/memberpage/205969/5

[jeremyp111]

Originally posted by twopu

I`m so confused. After talking to a guy at CMA he said that I can`t use DACP and AIO. He said that I would remove any DACP once I apply the AIO. He said to do the AIO then the DACP but he said that he was not sure if they would work well together.



Maybe I should start over. I just ordered my PC for my black car with light scratches and swirls. I want to get rid of the swirls and scratches and protect the paint for the winter. What are the basics that I need. I thought I could go DACP --> AIO-->SG but I`m finding that I need to do more. Griots Garage said that all I need is their Machine Polish and Wax and I`m done.



Sorry for all this but I am so confused and reading more threads just screws me up. Thanks

I know it can be confusing reading about all of the different products and how to use them and in what steps. The way to simplify this is to figure out what you need to do, then get the products to do it. Now that`s where the fun comes in to play. What products do you use? Everyone has their personal favorites, myself included.



First I will say that what that guy told you is wrong. You certainly can use AIO after using DACP and you can use DACP after AIO, it doesn`t matter(see blackntan`s post above).



Let`s look at what you are trying to do here.



1) You have swirls

2) You want to remove them

3) You want protection

4) You have a PC (half way there!)



OK, to remove swirls there are MANY products to use but let`s stick with DACP. It`s a great product and I don`t think many would argue that fact. DACP will remove oxidation and swirls and fill the minor ones left behind so they are much less noticable.

You now have the option of going straight to applying protection or following up with a finer polish. Again, MANY products to choose from, but see my post above for recommendations.

Now for protection you have a choice, traditional wax or synthetic sealant. For long lasting protection nothing beats a sealant like Klasse, Zaino, Megs #20, etc. Klasse AIO is a great one step product but for ultimate protection and shine add 2-5 coats of SG over AIO. It`s simple enough, just wipe on, wait 2 hours and wipe off.



It`s all very basic when you break it down to the simple processes that need to be done.



1) Clean - Wash and dry car

2) Prep - Clean paint and remove imperfections (swirls, scratches, etc.)

3) Protect - Wax or sealant of your choice



And then you get to do it all over again in a few months! Isn`t this fun?!:bounce



You are at the right place with the right people here to help you. Just ask. Hopefully I`ve been able to help you some.



Jeremy

[fidelfs]

Jeremy is correct about DACP but there is one thing. DACP does not fill swirls or scratches. It removed them for good.

That is why you can use it with many products. You cannot remove something that does not exist, meaning DACP removed the swirl and applied some gloss that`s it.



After DACP you can apply any sealant with no problem. I used with Zaino and you know how Zaino does not bond if there are residues of wax, oil, etc.



Twopu you will have a beatiful car following Jeremy directions.



Another autopian told me once that after applying DACP it was a good idea to step down a notch and use another swirl remover less abrasive to have an amazing prep work. I used 3M PIII MG after DACP and the results are great, then I applied a polish to have the mirror look in the paint.



:xyxthumbs

[biff]

Originally posted by blackntan





DACP is a cleaner/polish. It removes swirls, then adds a polish to hide even more swirls.

I`m afraid I have to disagree with this concept and also the guy at CMA who believes that DACP adds any kind of filler or "polish".



Maybe they`re assuming this because of the name, however if you use DACP and then feel your paint, you`ll see right away that the finish is squeeky clean and free of any fillers or oils. I believe the term "polish" in this case is referring to DACP`s diminishing abrassives and not the addition of a "glaze". Now number #9 and #7 are a different story.



I`m sure Mike Phillips can set us straight on this one.



But if you`re really concerned about bonding, just wipe down the finish with a 50/50 water/ alcohol mixture after the DACP, (even though there is really nothing there to remove).

[blackntan]

I have to respectfully disagree with you Biff. The DACP was made to be a one step cleaner/polish, as identified in it`s name. I`ve always considered DACP to be a mix of the fine cut and the machine glaze. Hell, even in the meguiars website, and on the label of the stuff in my garage, it talks about `Rich polishing oils ensure a memorable shine. `



There are definitly filler oils in the DACP. If there wasn`t, it`d just be fine cut compound.



The AIO will remove these fillers. I agree with the CMA guy, and also look forward to hearing from the Meg. rep. on this one...

[jeremyp111]

I agree with blackntan on this one too. While it does remove swirls it also adds oils that will enhance the shine and hide any remaining swirls. AIO will then remove any oils if used after DACP.



Here is the excerpt from their website.



Body Shop Professional Dual Action Cleaner/Polish

Moderate abrasive power removes light to medium contamination. A touch more aggressive than Meguiar`s Swirl-Free Polish, our Dual Action Cleaner Polish effectively deals with more significant stains, swirls, blemishes and oxidation. Its safe, Buffered Abrasiveâ„¢ cleaning action attacks defects while guarding your finish against scratches. Rich polishing oils ensure a memorable shine. Made For Professionals

[biff]

Originally posted by jeremyp111

I agree with blackntan on this one too. While it does remove swirls it also adds oils that will enhance the shine and hide any remaining swirls. AIO will then remove any oils if used after DACP.



Here is the excerpt from their website.



Body Shop Professional Dual Action Cleaner/Polish

Moderate abrasive power removes light to medium contamination. A touch more aggressive than Meguiar`s Swirl-Free Polish, our Dual Action Cleaner Polish effectively deals with more significant stains, swirls, blemishes and oxidation. Its safe, Buffered Abrasiveâ„¢ cleaning action attacks defects while guarding your finish against scratches. Rich polishing oils ensure a memorable shine. Made For Professionals

Then I stand corrected. See ya learn something everyday!

[imported_Tony]

It is confusing: DACP talks about cleaning and adding oils in the same step. I hope Mike jumps in and tells us how that works.



In addition how does a polymer like klasse bond to a surface prep by #81?:nixweiss

[Mike_Phillips]

Where to start?



I actually don`t have much time today to post as I have to write Tech Bulletins for new products for a meeting tomorrow. I was asked via PM to visit and respond. Your request is honored.



But I will say this,



For some reason people tend to position the oils in Meguiar`s products as "fillers".



And yes, part of what they do is to fill in hairline scratches so that your overall finish looks better. Isn`t that part of what detailing is all about... making your paint look good?



This part however, is always left out when people post their opinions on Meguiar’s TS Oils, (Trade Secret oils), These oils, and there are multiple formula`s for these oils, (it`s not like out back behind the building there`s a 55 gallon barrel full of some kind of oil that we draw from). The type/content/formula used depends upon what procedure a particular product is designed to perform.



These oils act as Lubricants. As a lubricant, they help to cushion/lessen any abrading effect the diminishing abrasives have. If you think about it for a moment, another way of saying this is, these oils hinder the cutting action. That is to say… these oils slow the cutting action down, or reduce the aggressiveness, or removes less material, etc. etc.



This buffering action provided by the lubrication characteristics of Meguiar’s TS oils helps to create a â€�Polishing-Effectâ€�. Thus Meguiar’s Compounds, Paint Cleaners, and Cleaner/Polishes are famous for the results they achieve… considering their abrasive products.



More so in the past, but still today, competitors abrasive products were/are basically grit and solvent. Grit and solvent compounds cut very fast, but they leave the finish scoured, dull and hazy.



Meguiar’s products, (all of them), are formulated in such a way that you, the USER, are always working forwards in the polishing process. That is to say, each product in each step actively brings your surface to a super smooth, crystal clear finish. With each step, you move forwards towards the goal of a flawless finish.



Other systems don’t always work this way and often depend on the last step product to clear-up and improve the finish to an acceptable standard.



Lubricating oils also help to keep temperatures lower when buffing by machine, at least lower compared to products with little, or now lubricating oils. Including oils for lubrication increases the cost of the final product, especially the type of oils used by Meguiar’s. Some companies use a petroleum distillate called, Mineral Oil. It is by far, one of the least costly lubricating oils.



Next, The TS Oils used by Meguiar’s are not merely fillers as some people like to position them, but are chosen for, and used for, their beauty characteristics.



Seems like a no-brainer, but hard for some people to comprehend.



Anyway, I asked the head chemist some specific questions about this beautification oil. While I cannot say publicly everything he told me, you can choose now to take my word for it… or not.



He told me the oil they use isn’t really an oil, but specifically, a component of the oil Meguiar’s extracts.



They use this component of the oil because it adds beauty. The theory, as well as practical application must work because for over 100 years, people have trusted this product for their finishes.



So I know there is an entire camp of people that have been educated to wash their paint with Dawn Dishwashing liquid, but this is working backwards, harmful to the paint, and in the big picture, totally unnecessary.



You can read more about Dawn and Oils here, the 16th post on this page.



But hey, like I always say, “Find something you like and use it often�. If you like Dawn for stripping, I mean washing your car’s finish, then use it.



If your intent is to get the surface really clean so that a polymer will protect it, in other words, if your looking for the most protection possible, then park the car in a garage.



If you want to drive the car and have it look as good as it possibly can, then worry less about getting the oils off, and more about polishing and waxing often using products that add both beauty and protection.



Make sense?



If it were me, and I were going to polish this black car with the goal of increasing it’s beauty and protecting it for the winter, I would, *



* Wash first to remove loose dirt with any quality car wash, I like #62 Car Wash and Shampoo Conditioner. Clay if need after washing using my wash water as the lube, then quickly washing clayed surface again while I have the hose, bucket and wash mitt out.



* Go over all paint panels using #83 Dual-Action Cleaner Polish with a W-8006 foam polishing pad on a Porter Cable Dual-Action polisher on the 5.5 setting working small sections thoroughly until the product is almost gone.



* Polish using #81 Hand Polish by hand or Machine.



* Apply a coat of #20 Polymer Sealant for a base. (my personal choice, not Meguiar’s official position).



* Apply a coat of either #26 or Medallion for protection and beauty.





As I contemplate, some of you will be either asking, or suggesting, the cleaners in #20 will remove the polishing oils in #81, I would ask you… to what degree?



My answer:



Not enough to make any difference in the world. At least not enough of a difference that would be noticeable to your eyes, and certainly not enough to prevent me following this procedure.



In the future, I would repeat everything above except instead of using #20 plus a second beauty wax, I would probably apply one coat of Lab Sample E when it becomes available.



Have to get back to work now. :xyxthumbs