Autopia Forums - Auto Detailing & Car Care Discussion Forum
Go Back   Autopia Forums - Auto Detailing & Car Care Discussion Forum > Autopia Car Care Guide To Detailing > Auto Detailing 101
Auto Detailing 101 Whether you are a professional or a do-it-yourself car owner this is the place to go for the basics of automotive detailing.

» Car Care Brands
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  (#1) Old
Wax Waster
Ronkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust Shine
 
Ronkh's Avatar
 
Hand or Pad - 01-21-2010, 02:47 PM

Ok folks, I'm gettin the urge to waste some wax.......

So when I get a night where people are not getting sick or injured it's time.

So do I want to do it by hand or applicator pad?

It sounds so exotic doing it by hand. Any pro's or cons?


Formerly the "Best Detailer", now just Super Wax Waster Man. Not necessarily tactful, but normally right. It's good to be da King !!!
   
Reply With Quote
  (#2) Old
COME AT ME BRO
JaredPointer Can Make Rust ShineJaredPointer Can Make Rust ShineJaredPointer Can Make Rust ShineJaredPointer Can Make Rust ShineJaredPointer Can Make Rust ShineJaredPointer Can Make Rust ShineJaredPointer Can Make Rust ShineJaredPointer Can Make Rust ShineJaredPointer Can Make Rust ShineJaredPointer Can Make Rust ShineJaredPointer Can Make Rust Shine
 
JaredPointer's Avatar
 
Re: Hand or Pad - 01-21-2010, 02:53 PM

I could never get it to work right using my hands. Too much wax here, no wax there. I think with a pad I get more uniform coverage, and by using a pad I can use the Flex or PC to apply.


I don't believe in grit guards.
   
Reply With Quote
  (#3) Old
Wax Waster
Ronkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust Shine
 
Ronkh's Avatar
 
Re: Hand or Pad - 01-21-2010, 03:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaredPointer View Post
I could never get it to work right using my hands. Too much wax here, no wax there. I think with a pad I get more uniform coverage, and by using a pad I can use the Flex or PC to apply.
I've done most of my sealants by machine, never wax. Mebbe I should try that too.


Formerly the "Best Detailer", now just Super Wax Waster Man. Not necessarily tactful, but normally right. It's good to be da King !!!
   
Reply With Quote
  (#4) Old
@PoorboysWorld.com
Pockets Can Make Rust ShinePockets Can Make Rust ShinePockets Can Make Rust ShinePockets Can Make Rust ShinePockets Can Make Rust ShinePockets Can Make Rust ShinePockets Can Make Rust Shine
 
Pockets's Avatar
 
Re: Hand or Pad - 01-21-2010, 03:18 PM

What are you "waxing by hand"


Huh......Wha

www.PoorboysWorld.com
Warehouse Manager
e-mail Pockets@Poorboysworld.com
   
Reply With Quote
  (#5) Old
Just One More Coat
Beemerboy is very helpful and well-respected.
 
Beemerboy's Avatar
 
Re: Hand or Pad - 01-21-2010, 04:22 PM

Nice soft foam pad on a misted panel with QD


Old Enough To Know Better, Too Stupid To Care....

Dave's Detailing
Sonoma County, CA
   
Reply With Quote
  (#6) Old
Wax Waster
Ronkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust Shine
 
Ronkh's Avatar
 
Re: Hand or Pad - 01-22-2010, 08:58 AM

So far nobody is in favor of hand application.


Formerly the "Best Detailer", now just Super Wax Waster Man. Not necessarily tactful, but normally right. It's good to be da King !!!
   
Reply With Quote
  (#7) Old
Administrator
Mike Phillips is a Autopiaforums.com favorite!Mike Phillips is a Autopiaforums.com favorite!Mike Phillips is a Autopiaforums.com favorite!
 
Mike Phillips's Avatar
 
Re: Hand or Pad - 01-22-2010, 10:37 AM

Here's what I posted on this about a year ago on MOL here,

It's a marketing strategy about creating the perception of;
  • Unique
  • Special
  • Exclusive
  • Reserved
  • Aristocratic
  • Fill in the blank
Back in about 1991 I actually waxed a car that I had buffed out first by machine, (rotary buffer), and then bare-hand applied two coats of M26 Liquid wax. That is I used my bare hand to apply the wax. I mostly did this to see what it was like, to see if there were any benefit to using your bare hand to apply a wax to the paint on a car.

In my opinion, for whatever that is worth... there was no benefit at all..

At least no benefit that made it better than using a normal, foam hand wax applicator pad or a foam buffing pad on a machine. I have never used my bare hand to apply a wax to a car since then and I've worked on a lot of cars. A foam wax applicator pad can absorb, in this case absorb some wax, (or a paint sealant), and then when you press on the foam just a little it will release some product enabling you to spread it out. You skin can't absorb and hold a little wax, (or paint sealant), like a quality foam applicator pad and so pressing on your skin, or pressing your skin against the paint won't release any wax or paint sealant, you have to go back to the source and get some more wax or paint sealant back onto your hand to continue spreading product.

There was one tiny benefit to applying wax with a bare hand and that was using your sense of touch if you sensed or felt any kind of particle between your hand and the paint you could stop and remove the offending particle. Not sure I've ever seen this pointed out by any other forum personality that practices bare-hand waxing? With an applicator pad you can't feel tiny particles, you have to turn your applicator pad over often and visually inspect for them and this by the way is a good habit to forum or "Best Practice" when applying any paint care product by hand or machine.

In a perfect world, the best way to apply a wax or a paint sealant to paint is without a doubt by machine, specifically a dual action polisher with a soft finishing pad or a polishing pad on the 3-4 speed setting after the paint has been previously cleaned and polished.


Spreading the pressure out

Bare Hand
When you're working with your bare hand, there's no interface to spread pressure out, just your hand against the paint.

DA Polisher
With a machine like a Dual Action Polisher, the pressure is spread out evenly over the entire face of the buffing pad assuming you're using good technique and holding the pad flat to the surface.

Wax Applicator Pad
Your hand, which is actually 4 fingers pushing down on an applicator pad creates pressure points and cannot match, let alone outperform the equal pressure applied to the entire face of a foam buffing pad with about a 6" diameter by machine.

Picture courtesy of MeguiarsOnline.com


So out of the 2 options, machine, wax applicator pad or bare hand, the machine option provides for the most even pressure when spreading out a wax, hand application offers some ability to spread out the pressure but when working by hand there's nothing to act as an interface between your hand and the paint.


A Romantic Idea
Melting wax with your hand is just a romantic idea, nothing wrong with that as it does invoke this perception of old world craftsmanship. That said, you can melt most paste waxes enough to liquefy them so the wax will flow into your applicator pad simply by spinning your applicator over the surface of the wax while it's in the can. M16 has been out since 1951 and all the old-timers knew this back in the day...

Picture courtesy of MeguiarsOnline.com




If applying wax with your bare hand sounds like a good idea simply get a clean, foam applicator pad and then do your own hands-on test and try applying and spreading out a thin, uniform coating using both methods, hand and applicator pad and then come to your own opinion and then post it here to share with others.



How-To Videos
Articles I've Written

Mike Phillips
1-800-869-3011 x206
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek.net

"Find something you like and use it often"
   
Reply With Quote
  (#8) Old
Administrator
Mike Phillips is a Autopiaforums.com favorite!Mike Phillips is a Autopiaforums.com favorite!Mike Phillips is a Autopiaforums.com favorite!
 
Mike Phillips's Avatar
 
Re: Hand or Pad - 01-22-2010, 10:39 AM

And here, back in 2006

For the record and for what it's worth, I've used my bare hand to apply a wax to a car I machine cleaned and polished using the rotary buffer first, so the finish was absolutely clean, smooth and free of any defects. This was back in 1991 in Bellevue, Washington at a shop called, "Urban Logic".

I did it to see what it was like as compared to what others have said and what I've read because some people/companies have recommended this method to apply their products.

While I didn't see any real harm in the process, a soft foam applicator works better because the physics of the foam allow it to hold product inside of itself, that you can then release as you press gently against the paint as your moving the pad over the finish.

You skin on the other hand only holds a small amount of product on the surface, [of your hand and fingers], creating a disadvantage when compared to the foam applicator pad for applying wax effectively and in a timely manner. Just my humble opinion, but given the option of applying wax by bare hand nor with a foam applicator pad, I would choose the applicator pad hands down... no pun intended...

If you pay attention, you can feel if any abrasive particles enter into the process because of your sense of touch, so that's a real benefit but if you're working clean and using good technique then this shouldn't be a factor anyways.

I will say that to advertise, or market your services to your customers and to tout that you apply your wax using your bare hand holds some mystique or air of elite professionalism/craftsmanship to it, (but only to the uneducated in the art of polishing paint).

My honest opinion... no benefit at all to apply any type of wax or paint sealant using only your bare hand.

I would take a simple, clean, soft foam wax applicator pad every time no questions asked, no doubts about the end-results.

Of course, reading about it is second-hand knowledge, the best test is to try it yourself and get first hand knowledge on the topic and decide for yourself if there is any true benefit to applying a wax with your bare hand or if this is just a form of marketing.




How-To Videos
Articles I've Written

Mike Phillips
1-800-869-3011 x206
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek.net

"Find something you like and use it often"
   
Reply With Quote
  (#9) Old
Wax Waster
Ronkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust Shine
 
Ronkh's Avatar
 
Re: Hand or Pad - 01-22-2010, 11:03 AM

Thanks Mike.


Formerly the "Best Detailer", now just Super Wax Waster Man. Not necessarily tactful, but normally right. It's good to be da King !!!
   
Reply With Quote
  (#10) Old
Administrator
Mike Phillips is a Autopiaforums.com favorite!Mike Phillips is a Autopiaforums.com favorite!Mike Phillips is a Autopiaforums.com favorite!
 
Mike Phillips's Avatar
 
Re: Hand or Pad - 01-22-2010, 11:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronkh View Post
Thanks Mike.
Just to note the last paragraph of my above post...

Just for fun sometime, try it yourself and see if your experience is similar to what I describe in my comments. First hand knowledge, no pun intended is one of the best ways to make up your own mind about a topic like this.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek View Post

Of course, reading about it is second-hand knowledge, the best test is to try it yourself and get first hand knowledge on the topic and decide for yourself if there is any true benefit to applying a wax with your bare hand or if this is just a form of marketing.


How-To Videos
Articles I've Written

Mike Phillips
1-800-869-3011 x206
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek.net

"Find something you like and use it often"
   
Reply With Quote
  (#11) Old
Wax Waster
Ronkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust Shine
 
Ronkh's Avatar
 
Re: Hand or Pad - 01-22-2010, 11:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike.Phillips@Autogeek View Post
Just to note the last paragraph of my above post...

Just for fun sometime, try it yourself and see if your experience is similar to what I describe in my comments. First hand knowledge, no pun intended is one of the best ways to make up your own mind about a topic like this.

One day........ But it won't be on the black car.

Besides the uniqueness of hand application I only see 2 benefits. First as you said, you caould feel something on the paint that you might not feel with the pad. Second you could get into smaller areas. For smaller areas I could just use a finger anyway.

I am starting to get interested in using the pc for wax application. I've only used it for sealants in the past.


Formerly the "Best Detailer", now just Super Wax Waster Man. Not necessarily tactful, but normally right. It's good to be da King !!!
   
Reply With Quote
  (#12) Old
Concourse Detail
9D4E420 Can Make Rust Shine9D4E420 Can Make Rust Shine9D4E420 Can Make Rust Shine9D4E420 Can Make Rust Shine
 
9D4E420's Avatar
 
Re: Hand or Pad - 01-22-2010, 12:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronkh View Post
One day........ But it won't be on the black car.
I am starting to get interested in using the pc for wax application. I've only used it for sealants in the past.
When LC came out with the red 4" pads I picked a few up from AG. Ever since then I tend to use them with the PC over the hand method. I've never had any swirl or marring problems even on BMW JB. I've used 476, NB, and NR with the PC. NR I find is the easiest to use with this method. No knives needed to spread the wax onto the pad. I know you have tubs of NB and NR so you should have no problem dipping the PC in to grab some wax.

I remember Beercan (Rich) was using the PC to spread Natty's on his black Dakota at the summer PB Detail weekend. He prefers the PC method over hand also.


Kurt
   
Reply With Quote
  (#13) Old
Wax Waster
Ronkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust ShineRonkh Can Make Rust Shine
 
Ronkh's Avatar
 
Re: Hand or Pad - 01-22-2010, 12:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9D4E420 View Post
When LC came out with the red 4" pads I picked a few up from AG. Ever since then I tend to use them with the PC over the hand method. I've never had any swirl or marring problems even on BMW JB. I've used 476, NB, and NR with the PC. NR I find is the easiest to use with this method. No knives needed to spread the wax onto the pad. I know you have tubs of NB and NR so you should have no problem dipping the PC in to grab some wax.

I remember Beercan (Rich) was using the PC to spread Natty's on his black Dakota at the summer PB Detail weekend. He prefers the PC method over hand also.
I also got a 2.5" backing plate for my pc. That way I can use a normal sized mf pad and put the pc down on it. Saw that done and it looked interesting.

How did you know I got wax?


Formerly the "Best Detailer", now just Super Wax Waster Man. Not necessarily tactful, but normally right. It's good to be da King !!!
   
Reply With Quote
  (#14) Old
Morgan
EcoAutoCT is very helpful and well-respected.
 
Re: Hand or Pad - 01-22-2010, 01:22 PM

Waxing by hand makes it sound so romantic, but I'll take halogen over candle light.

At least until Valentine's Day.
   
Reply With Quote
  (#15) Old
Swirl Removal Specialist.
tdekany is pretty famous around here.tdekany is pretty famous around here.
 
Re: Hand or Pad - 01-22-2010, 01:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by EcoAutoCT View Post
Waxing by hand makes it sound so romantic, but I'll take halogen over candle light.

At least until Valentine's Day.
That IS fuuny!!!:ro fl


Dekany Paint Restoration
   
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes


» Autopia Forums Sponsor
» Current Poll
What type of machine polisher do you use the most?
I don't use a machine polisher - 5.47%
7 Votes
Random Orbital Dual Action Polisher (Porter Cable, Griot's, Meguiars G110v2) - 62.50%
80 Votes
Forced Rotation Dual Action Polisher (Flex 3401, Makita BO6040) - 14.06%
18 Votes
Rotary Polisher (FLEX PE 14-2-150, Makita 9227c, DeWalt 849W) - 17.97%
23 Votes
Total Votes: 128
You may not vote on this poll.
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.1


3.8.7
vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
Copyright ©, 2002-2011, AutopiaForums.com - All Rights Reserved


Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71